I would agree with your reservations about the Windmill. In my usage, the hinged plstic lid is often in the way when lighting tinder.

I still carry my Windmill, but I found a Solo lighter with an extendable tube (it is billed as a candle lighter on their website) that is much easier in normal usage. It cost about twelve bucks at the local sporting goods store. Refillable, definitely not waterproof, but quite reliable in normal circumstances. I suspect that if I were wearing gloves and/or slightly hypothermic, that extending the tube would be a mild hassle.

Is usage, I carry both the Windmill and the Solo, backed up with stormproof matches and at least one disposable Bic, all in a sealable water tight pouch.

This last summer I carried all this gear on a bicycling tour near the Black Hills, and it was so dry and hot that I never lit my stove, not even once.

I'd have to agree. The small Bic is just about as good as you can get. I personally wasted my money on the Brunton Helios (not unlike the Windmill), after hearing lots of great things about these types of lighters.

Well, the fact is that the only advantage of the Helios over the Bic is that it works a bit better in the wind. The Bic actually lights cigarettes better than the Helios, it's a lot smaller, lasts many, many times longer than a Helios charge, and ignites things faster! Not to mention the price of the Helios and fuel.

I like to find the two-pack in cellophane of the mini Bics, and keep the package sealed so that I know they haven't been used.

I handled the Storm or a close copy (didn't know the name at the time) before I ordered the Windmill. No real experience, but it seemed sturdier probably more waterproof- if a lot larger.

I don't disagree- for backpacking and kits I often use the small Bic. Can't be beat for the bulk and weight, and there is no lid to get in the way. I came near to melting the lid on my Windmill trying to light a lantern- not good.

And you're right- the Helios looks a LOT like a Windmill (or very close clone) with an external rubber casing.

Back in the early '80's Eddie Baur briefly carried a tiny butane lighter in a black, screw-open plasic capsule an inch and a half long, with o-ring and very waterproof. I bought two and still have one almost unused. IMHO it's a bit bulky for an Altoids-size tin, but ideal for sailing. I carried the other for EDC for years on a keyring, but finally the metal jump ring on the end wore through the little plastic stud that held it. I'm sure I put it somewhere safe... since then, I've been afraid to carry the other that way, but it's ideal for my "water" kit.

Maybe I should have made it clear that this quest isn't for an item to go in a kit, it's for every-day pocket carry... and I don't smoke. I've used the lighter mostly for gallant gestures in day-to-day life, and a compass mostly for getting oriented leaving the subway.

>>how about pernament matches, they are cheap, smaller, waterproof. a little harder to lite though... <<

I have a few of those. They vary considerably in quality depending on the manufacturer, but I like them in general. They are very flat, small, very waterproof, refill with ordinary lighter fluid or kerosene, reliable, and if you run out of fuel, you still have a ferrocerium rod and a striker for sparks. Working more like a match, it's much easier light a fire, candle or lantern with them than with most lighters. I've got them in my two smallest kits now.

However, I brought them up some time back (years?) on this forum, and got slammed by someone who vehemently called them junky toys, and that seemed to be the end of that conversation. They are marketed mostly as a novelty item, but I fail to see much wrong with them. Heck, I'd be happy to buy a few to have Doug and Chris review them. I think they're worthy of some attention.

There was a posting by me few months back that kind of blasted Windmill for not being waterproof. I took a swim with it and it failed me. I think that waterproof lighter can be made if necessary. In the store you can buy one of those slim lighters that are shaped like a cigarettere. Smack that thing into one of those waterproof stainless steel capsules and you have yourself an underwater lighter. I think that such combo maybe taller than windmil but not as "fat". I think I give it a try. So far I shrink wrap my bic as an addition to my Windmil.

Matt

I like the permanent matches. Had some many many years ago and was pleasantly surprised to find them readily available locally again last year. They take a few moments to learn to use and then it's trivial. Cohglan's packages one with a box of waxy cotton "tinder" but oddly enough do not mention the use of the device as a match - not one mention of lighter fluid.

They are more than waterproof enough for personal immersion in glacial run-off. They are no more wind-resistant than a paper match is, but cupping the flame long enough to ignite something in windy conditions is an easily aquired skill. Not a one-hand-in-the-wind device, but a useful small device in my experience.

I work from time to time in a pipe/cigar shop. We sell and to some extent repair every lighter mentioned. Several of us are rabid outdoorsmen (others, just rabid). Here's my opinion.. for what it's worth:
1)any propane lighter will be more difficult to light than any fluid lighter if very cold or at higher altitude.
2)every fluid lighter (Zippo, e.g.) is more vulnerable to fuel evaporation than any gas lighter. Zippo is supposed to be selling (in 2003) a 1+oz. fuel capsule (like a mini fuel bottle) which I'll probably ranger-band to my Zippo when I get it.
3)Forget about waterproof lighters! If yours happens to be, great. But there are more failures in that area than you would expect. I second Doug's point: put it in a waterproof container, or just consider it water repellant.
4)Piezoelectric (quartz) gas lighters are quite vulnerable to dust/grit, which will change how the lighter is "timed" and thus cause a lighting failure. So are the "torch" type lighters, which also burn a lot of fuel.
5)All butane is not alike. I am convinced that the cheaper brand (e.g. Ronson) has caused us much more trouble than the premium brands (e.g. Colibri). Their story is that the premium fuels are better filtered. I believe it!
6)If your lighter will light in wind... I bet a Zippo will stay lit longer and better than a gas lighter. But certainly some of the gas lighters mentioned will light in wind.

Finally,..(sorry for being so long winded). I polled several lighter repair experts who are also outdoorsmen. Zippo wins hands down... with a backup fuel capsule.

got a tip about pernament matches ( a pretty logical one ): if you spill some fuel over the striker box make sure the fuel is fully removed.
i remember once i spilled some fuel on top of mine permanent match and just wipped it clean with an tissue. wenn i ignited the match the top of the box ignited with it <img src="images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> i also had a icident were the wick burned... but thats a nother story <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for the feedback.

Even though this is for EDC and not a kit, because I’m not a smoker, and I go for weeks without using a lighter in normal life, a “Zippo” type just doesn’t work for me- it will have evaporated dry almost every time I need it. Other than that, I agree about the reliability. The butane lighters are much more complex. All of which sound like arguments for the Permanent Match, come to think of it.

Even though I’ve only used Colibri fuel, evidently the “timing” of my Windmill is now off. Not surprising, considering what it’s been through. Neither immersion was intentional, both required disassembly.

Sooo… though I don’t really dispute anything you’ve said, I’m not quite ready to give up the looking for a reasonably waterproof gas lighter, preferably with a compass, quite yet.