Hi, I'm new here...

After many months of reading equipment recommendations and reviews on this site and others; as well as penny pinching and working my butt off to raise the money to buy the gear - I finally invested in some nice top-of-the-line goodies for my EDC, work, and recreational travel kits.

However, I've now found myself unwilling to use a lot of the items for fear of scratching and banging them up. For example, I paid almost $400 for a sebenza - but I simply could not bring myself to use it for anything other than showing it off to co-workers. I even freaked out when my little brother asked to borrow it to peel an orange during a hiking trip. I ended up selling the thing and replacing it with a spyderco delica. And it's not only with the knife - same thing happened with flashlights, watch, space pen...even the portable stove. So does anyone else have this problem, or am I just really weird?

Welcome to the fire, newguy! I'm glad this site has been of value to you.

As for gear-nuts, yes there are a few of us here. The whole "to-nice-to-use" thing pops up for me every so often, though in my case it's more of a "to-nicely-packed-to-unpack" sort of thing. Perhaps you should get a a few cheap items and heavily abuse them. See how rough you can be with them before they break. You might be suprised.

Plus, it's a good excuse to buy more stuff. Especially if it's on clearance after Christmas!

-Blast

Not weird at all. That's why I carry $20-80 knives instead of $400 knives. Ditto the $20-30 flashlight vs. the $500 flashlight. I must admit I wear a pretty pricey watch, but it was a gift and it's built like a tank, and it's a $200 watch, not a $6000 watch.

I like to use good tools. Emphasis on "use" and "good". I think there's a knee to the price/quality curve, and above that you're paying for pocket jewelry.

Kevin B.

yeah, for a while i was afraid to wear y fortress patrol watch!! But i love it, its really compy and has a HUGE band. Ive worn it for almost a year and a half, and apart from a cracked face its still ticking!!

cxrc
welcome to our insanity, as far as your being wierd that is to be seen, but we will be watching for it. As far as the equipment I kinda understand not wanting to tear up somthing new in some situations, but think about what you bought this particular gear for. I personaly abuse the hell outta mine while my life dosen't depend on it, that way I know it will survive when I need it.

If it's scratched and dented, it's proof you use it.

Think of the jacked up high rise 4x4 that doesn't even have a spot of mud on it let alone a nick or scratch.

I have more respect for the guy in a 1982 Toyota that actually take s the truck off road.

Bad example maybe but it's how I think of my gear.

I find that I sometimes don't want to use even cheaper gear, because it looks so nice and pristine. After the first scratch or two though it doesn't bother me anymore and I use the crap out of it. I think that's the key, once you use it a few times and mess it up a little, you become more willing to use it.

The exception for me is gear I bought strictly as a collectable (like my collection of Benchmade Prototype and William Henry knives). These I buy with the intent of them never being used. Only admired and eventually sold.


With that said, my EDC watch was $700, my EDC knife was $130, my EDC flashlight was $210.....so as you can tell I don't skimp on EDC gear. If I find something that I think is near-perfect for my purposes, it will usually end up in my EDC.

All in all, using a piece of gear doesn't bother me anywhere near as much a losing it. Losing something I really like burns me like no other.

I struggle with it, but I'm absolutely in the "use it" camp. I have a few holdbacks just in case...but they're spares if I break something.

It doesn't matter if it has scratches or dings if you know how to use it and can access it quickly when ya need to press it into service.

And on the watch side...after killing several costly watches, I've been wearing Casio G-shocks for almost 18 years. I like them and they can't be killed...have several stories. BUT...they now must be sent to the Casio repair shop in order to switch out batteries and "be pressurized". Poor engineering. Nobody wants to be w/o their watch for several weeks. When this battery dies in mine, I'll probably be looking at some other brand...hopefully similar, but with CONSUMER REPLACEABLE BATTERY. I used to recommend these to everyone. I can no longer do it in good conscience. They wear well...but the battery thing is ridiculous.

Welcome to the Forum!!

All of my equipment was obtained in order to be abused and I don't feel right until it has acquired a few scratches and/or dings.

As someone else posted, this is how I know that my equipment will be up to the situations that I encounter as I go along my merry little way.

I completly get you. I am the same way with the gear I buy. The DW constantly complains about me unpacking and repacking my BOB and the fact that i will not use whats in it.

Any watch that is given a water resistance rating, like the G-shock has (200M), needs to be pressure tested after the battery cover is removed. Doesn't matter if it's a $30 Casio or a $3,000 Movado. Once that cover comes off the water resistance could be compromised. Doesn't mean it is, but it could be, which is why it needs to be tested (and why Casio wants you return the watch to them). It isn't poor engineering by any means, it's a fact of having a diving rated watch.

If you want a watch that keeps quartz accuracy, while potentially never requiring a replacement battery, you're only bet is an automatic quartz watch or a solar-powered watch. Such as a Seiko Auto-Quartz (Kinetic) or a Citizen Eco-drive. Both should last the lifetime of the wearer without requiring the case to be opened.

Here's a link to the Seiko:

Seiko Kinetic Dive

If that fails...a sun dial is probably your next option.

I believe J.P. Morgan said something to the effect of "Every thing is either a tool or an idol." I confess to having my share of both. Regarding nice things, I don't mind having something nice/expensive so long as I use it often enough. This applies to items as mundane as measuring cups and towels as well as "gear". On a cost per use basis perhaps the really expensive things are the ones that sit around unused. We all know the pleasure from using a well-made tool, which usually makes it worth it for me, even if I have to save a while for it.

On a different slant...

There appears to be some perverse economic principle that drives upward the price of quality items to the degree that a cheaper substitute exists. What was formerly merely good-quality becomes luxury goods. I'm sure economists have an explanation, but I don't like it. Examples abound, but here are two, both based on wool: The kinds of quality-everyday-wear wool pants that were common when my father was a kid (late 40's early 50's) are pricy and obscure today. And I think you just can't buy the Woolrich shirt today that my uncle wore as a teenager -- I have never seen such detailed weave and luxurious feel in anything contemporary. Not that they were wealthy, quite the opposite in fact. They were "everyday poor" like everyone else, in a small mill town, and raised a cow, chickens, and a few pigs to make ends meet by bartering away the hams and butter for credit at the general store.

So next time you're rationalizing^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H contemplating that next purchase, perhaps you can consider yourself to be "striking a blow" against this downward trend by supporting the remaining people who build things with quality

Steve

Welcome cxrc. I completely understand your mindset. For a long time I had the same thought process. Now I use the gear to make sure it will withstand the rigors of survival duty. Use it, but keep it well maintained. Service and periodic inspection is paramount to all gear functioning correctly when the "real" events hits. Also, be totally familiar with all your tools and equipment. Use them routinely and practice seldom used skills. We tend to "fight like we train".

I have some expensive gear too, but I force myself not to be troubled when something gets used and needs replacing.

To my mind the only thing more wasteful than spending $300 on a flashlight (for example) is not using it when you need it. So justify the purchase(s) by using them. The more you use them, the easier it will be and your skills using them will grow too.

Hmmm...Knives and backpacks. I idolize Arc'teryx backpacks, and I use them constantly...but I'm also extra careful to not unnecessarily abuse them. I want them to last a long time and stay in great shape to cover the serious emergency I hope I never find myself in. Otherwise I use them everyday with reasonable care. I bought every one of them on a reduced price sale, usually 50 to 60% off at my local retailer. I'm just patient and wait until the right time to buy or make a deal with the manager.

Last count I have 13 pieces of a variety of Arc'teryx backpacks and butt packs, but again at substantially reduced prices. Most of them are day packs so I rotate them for the fun of it.
If I really want to abuse a backpack I'll use a GI combat patrol pack.

Then there are knives; I buy high quality production knives and again I use them with reasonable care; so much of the time they remain in good to excellent condition with minimal signs of wear. I don't need to rip open a can with my Kabar to prove it will do it. I know it will do it, so why scratch the heck out of the finish for nothing?

This evening I needed to go to my car a couple of times, but couldn't do it due to a loose, aggressive mixed breed dog. He became such a problem I called Animal Control to come and get him. But while trying to get to my car, if he had attacked me, I wouldn't care if my Kabar picked up some blemishes.

And in response to "The Chaplain"; I'm repacking and checking my BOBs all the time, making adjustments for the weather, etc. My wife doesn't mind it for me to do this to take care of US if something happens and its needed. And she likes the fact that I take my gear with me even on short fishing and hiking ventures. I won't find myself in a spot like the Christmas tree hunters. I hope they learned something. (they were lucky to be found in time).

And my favorite watch: military style $36.00 Timex Expedition
Favorite flashlight: Maglight with AA batteries. Works good enough for me and cheap enough to replace.

I usually buy decent gear, but not ridiculously expensive gear. So I'm not so worried about using it. There's a point of diminishing returns in my view. For example, I usually carry a Spyderco knife (a Native, or a Byrd Meadowlark or Robin which are great knives for the price). We're talking $20-$50 knives here. I don't carry a $400 Sebenza. I really doubt the Sebenza would do any more for me (functionally) than the Spydercos. Collecting is one thing - day to day use is another. I've got tons of moderately priced LED lights. None has ever failed me except the ARC-AAA (a light which many people used to idolize, and is relatively expensive for what it is). No multi-hundred dollar flashlights here.

Some things you have to pay handsomely to get good quality. Do it. Other things have good quality at decent prices. Then there are the things that add 1% on top of your decent gear (if that), but cost 10x as much. This latter group is simply not worth it to me, unless you want to collect it or idolize it.

Wouldn't the solar powered Casio watch solve the 'sending away to replace batteries' problem?
They tested a G shock on the gadget show here in the UK. Stuck an 80 pound one (160 dollars) behind a gritter truck and sprayed it, then dunked it in minus 20 water. Neither had any effect. Then they used it as a hockey puck! Considering pucks can move at 100 miles an hour this really was a test to destruction. Eventually it fell apart of course, but not till it had been slammed scores of times. A 1000 pound navy seal watch had the same test and did no better.
On 'the not wanting to use gear' thing. As has been said on another recent thread; lending gear is a mistake.
'It's better to give than to receive and it costs the same'.
If it is survival gear, do you really want to use it. You want it pristine for when you are in a survival situation.
The Sock

Welcome! I think to some degree we'll all have that 'problem' and while I can't tell if you're weird from your post I do think you raise a legitimate question. My basic operating principal is I buy stuff to use. Generally I buy mid-priced stuff of good quality. My problem is I tend to buy a lot of it. Do I really need to EDC 4 LED lights? No, but redundancy is good, right?

If you buy a tool you shouldn't worry about using it. If it's a good tool and you use it the way it should be used, then it's doing the job for which it was made. If you buy a tool for its future collector's value then don't ever take it out of the box.

Bottom line, use but don't abuse.

Welcome Newguy!

If you don't use it, how do you know that it will actually work? Use your stuff. If you wear it out, replace it, and use that...

I think it was Will Rogers that said "always buy the best you can afford" (or some such thing). I think it applies here with an eye on usage and quality.

Portions of my EDC goes into (and comes from) my "10 essentials" that I have always in the woods (with Scouts) so my stuff is definitely used, but with proper care and maintenance, you can use quality stuff for a long time, despite cosmetic blemishes introduced while using

I use my EDC stuff whenever I need to. That's why it's EVERYDAY stuff for me.
Most of the stuff I have for EDC and in my Get Home Bag are thoughtfull purchases. Like most here I am constantly re-evaluating/tinkering with the stuff that I need/want. Some things were expensive some were reasonalbe in price. Some of the stuff I use/carry was even free. All of my stuff has been used and in some cases abused by me. Many times I've had to "make do" with a less expensive item until I have enough put away to buy my "man I really want that" item.
It may not be pretty and shiny any more but it all serves a purpose.
If you are into being a collector then I can see worrying about scratching/dinging something up. You just need to make sure that you have covered your EDC with things that work for you.

You should always test your gear before you are placed in a situation where you need to use it. That said my primary EDC folder does not see all that much action on a daily basis. I like to save that blade.

What sees a lot of use in my Vic super tinker. I'm not afraid of using, abusing or loosing that knife. I think most of us carry a couple knives for that purpose alone.

Adam

Two is one. When I find a piece of EDC gear I like I normally buy a second and sometimes a third (identical). I'll EDC one and the others are in kits -- knives, flashlights, lots of small gear falls into this protocol.

Just a few random thoughts from reading through the posts. You can buy decent, very serviceable EDC items without spending a lot of money. For example a SAK or a mora knife, very good quality for little money. A more expensive knife will not necessarily perform better in the field. Same thing with many lights, mag lights are relatively inexpensive given the quality. I've bought several princeton tec lights for under $20 on clearance and they work great. All that said, I do appreciate better made items, even if the quality difference is only in the finishing and appearance and not in actual field performance.

It's easy to convince yourself that the $200 knife is better than the $10 mora, and afterall your life may be on the line, but in a tight spot the $10 mora will be more than adequate for your needs.

Woolens - spot on regarding the quality of vintage Woolrich clothing. Older stuff is better than what they sell now. I'm a thrift store addict and recently found a vintage (1960's perhaps) Woolrich jacket that is a far cut above what Woolrich currently offers. To find similar clothing today you need to buy Filson or something on that line. I paid about $10 for the Woolrich jacket at the thrift store.

My problem is different. Instead of buying expensive stuff and trying to keep it pristine, I just keep adding to the pile. I tell myself that is how to build up a good store.

A few $10 Mora or $50 (or less) KaBar knives are ideal. I'll have much less remorse or worry about damaging such a knife, if and when there comes a time to pound on the blade mercilessly while trying to use it to split a log for a fire or when I decide to use it as a shovel, hammer, chisel or whatever. When I use it more, I become more comfortable using that tool. When it a time comes to rely on it, I'll know what it can do and what I can do with it.

All of my equipment was obtained in order to be abused and I don't feel right until it has acquired a few scratches and/or dings.

If you don't use it, how do you know that it will actually work? Use your stuff. If you wear it out, replace it, and use that...

+1

I agree whole heartedly on the lowering of everyday quality. But the more I look though, the more I realize I can make a lot better stuff then I can afford to buy. I can put a handle on a $10 mora blade and boost the quality from a $10 knife to a $100 knife, mostly cosmetic but still a much nicer blade to carry. I also have a leather field bag which is roughly equivalent to a Filson field bag. I can't afford to carry a $200 dollar satchel, but I can spend a week making something as nice or nicer. If I have to buy something I try to buy something good I can afford, but if I can make something I'd much rather do that.

I agree with the "use it and abuse it" camp. Get your stuff out and use when you don't need to. Test drive it like mad so wou will know if it will of use in a "must" situation.

On the watch front I ask this: Why would you have a watch that requires batteries? I have an automatic that is great. Just a hand motions keep it wound up. Also, look at the solar options by some of the manufacturers. I am not particularly concerned about timing, day/date or any of the other things. Actually, the time of day is almost irrelevant. When its dark I sleep; when its light I work.

Thanks for the responses guys, it's good to know I'm not the only one! I will have to force myself to use the stuff. That first nick and scratch REALLY hurts - but usually after this I'm cool with it.

At work, my company encourages me to procure the best tools. I don't use $5 Chinese screwdrivers, I use $10 Kleins (and yes, there are better out there, but Klein makes the grade), because the metal, machining, and ergonomics are better, and I am less likely to break one or strip a screw at a crucial moment (thereby costing me more time and money in the long run). It is harder when it's your own cash, but the lesson is the same, don't use CHEAP gear, especially, when the "job", is keeping your butt alive in an emergency situation. Cheap is of course not always the least expensive, nor is the best or adequate the most expensive. If you are purchasing gear that you feel is too expensive to use or abuse training, it's probably not gear, it's art. Don't buy Lamborghini's when you want a Hummer. I too am in the "Use it, Use it, Use it" category. You want it to be dead simple and familiar to use in an emergency situation. If you have a trophy piece, that's fine, just realize that it is art, not gear, and purchase something functional , useable, and trainable for gear. A Mora that you've trained extensively with is infinitely more valuable in a survival situation than a Strider that you haven't.

my .02

C. Rowe

Re the watch thing, you are right. I love my Casio Triple Sensor, watch, compass, thermometer, etc etc etc, but I also hang on to my dad's Hamilton wind up pocket watch. It is a jillion years old, but just keeps on tickin' (as long as I remember to wind it). It tells me the time, and can be used as a so-so compass. What more does one really need???

I knew and old man once, he bought a new truck and his wife kept buggin him to be careful about scratching it for days after they picked it up. After a few days he got tired of it and took a hammer and hit the hood once. After that she never said another word about it.

Whats the fun of having a tool and not using it?

I haven't read any other responses to this post yet, but here are my thoughts as of this moment...

I am reminded of my first guitar teacher's immortal words..."If you can't afford a few scratches and dings, then your guitar is too expensive..."

Smart man, that one.

I understand your point though...I've been thinking more and more that I want to get a regular old RSK for EDC...I want to keep my M2 version looking nice...although I don't think it will ever sit around and collect dust. But it's far easier to replace a RSK mk1 than it would be to replace the M2 if I trash it.

I think you have to find the balance between good quality gear, and comfort level in using it for what it was designed for. Also consider how often you expect to use it and how you expect to use it. I tend to like overengineered and over quality equipment. Sometimes a Snow Peak Ti spork is called for, but sometimes a Light My Fire spork will do. The flash drives that I carry on my key chains are San Disk Ti Cruzers...probably more durable than I will ever need, but the cool factor is worth it to me...I have not pinched pennies to replace them with Iron Keys yet...maybe just one of those...cool factor is good, but there's a lot of cool gear to pinch pennies for out there!

If the gear you choose really lives up to the quality and cool factors...then use 'em and abuse 'em...that's what it's there for! And if it doesn't live up to the claims...contact the manufacturer!

Great point Ray...Nicodemus had as his sig line for a long time..."Learn survival skills when your life doesn't depend on it"

I think a similar notion applies to gear...push it to the limit in every day life...so you know what to expect when your life does depend on it.

That's why I try to buy some gear just to test...an extra Heatsheet or Heatsheet bivy...I try to figure out how these things might be used in a survival situation...put it through extreme paces...see if it will work the way I think it should...to fit my needs.

Getting a bit off track now...great point Ray!

I tell this to the kids I work with in martial arts...if you practice weak, your response will be weak...especially when you don't have to to think...just respond. Practice like your life depends on it...because some day, it just might.

i personally go by the following rules:
- Buy the best you can and am willing to afford, we are talking quality, not price. Looks are great, but fuction is what it is all about.
- If I'm not using it, it won't be carrying it, if i won't be carrying it, it won't be there when i need it.
- if it's to heavy, big or expensive, i won't carry it, thus not use it...

Story Time,

Almost 20 years ago, 2 weeks before I got married, I ordered a brand new Chev pickup truck; when my fiance and I went to pick it up at the dealers she accidently put a 3 inch scratch on the passenger door with her engagement ring! Ouch, I went through with the wedding, but have not bought a new vehicle since.

Mike

jenkinma:
don't know if it's the quote you are thinking of, but the question:
'when did you last regret buying the best?' is a good one to ask yourself.
The Sock

You should view all of it as a tool. If you can't use it then it is as useless as if you didn't have it. I carry stuff in my pocket and it show wear but is still in excellant condition. If you can use it get something you can.
cheers

I have found over many years of search and rescue that this is a very common phenomenom in the SAR community.

I don't think I've ever been bothered that way about using gear. I do sometimes buy clothes and not wear them in order to keep them pristine, but that's because I don't look after clothes too well and there are rare occasions when I need something smart.

I have the opposite problem in that I am reluctant to buy things which I won't use. It's been a long time since I last bought a torch - nearly 2 years - and there are plenty of nice shiny ones around. But I feel I have all my illumination bases covered so I couldn't use a new one without retiring an old one.