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#116621 - 12/20/07 01:48 AM Re: Gear idolization...anyone else have this probl [Re: yeti]
Paul810 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/02/03
Posts: 1428
Loc: NJ, USA
Originally Posted By: yeti

And on the watch side...after killing several costly watches, I've been wearing Casio G-shocks for almost 18 years. I like them and they can't be killed...have several stories. BUT...they now must be sent to the Casio repair shop in order to switch out batteries and "be pressurized". Poor engineering. Nobody wants to be w/o their watch for several weeks. When this battery dies in mine, I'll probably be looking at some other brand...hopefully similar, but with CONSUMER REPLACEABLE BATTERY. I used to recommend these to everyone. I can no longer do it in good conscience. They wear well...but the battery thing is ridiculous.


Any watch that is given a water resistance rating, like the G-shock has (200M), needs to be pressure tested after the battery cover is removed. Doesn't matter if it's a $30 Casio or a $3,000 Movado. Once that cover comes off the water resistance could be compromised. Doesn't mean it is, but it could be, which is why it needs to be tested (and why Casio wants you return the watch to them). It isn't poor engineering by any means, it's a fact of having a diving rated watch.

If you want a watch that keeps quartz accuracy, while potentially never requiring a replacement battery, you're only bet is an automatic quartz watch or a solar-powered watch. Such as a Seiko Auto-Quartz (Kinetic) or a Citizen Eco-drive. Both should last the lifetime of the wearer without requiring the case to be opened.

Here's a link to the Seiko:

Seiko Kinetic Dive

If that fails...a sun dial is probably your next option. grin

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#116626 - 12/20/07 02:32 AM Re: Gear idolization...anyone else have this probl [Re: yeti]
Steve Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 84
Loc: North Carolina
I believe J.P. Morgan said something to the effect of "Every thing is either a tool or an idol." I confess to having my share of both. Regarding nice things, I don't mind having something nice/expensive so long as I use it often enough. This applies to items as mundane as measuring cups and towels as well as "gear". On a cost per use basis perhaps the really expensive things are the ones that sit around unused. We all know the pleasure from using a well-made tool, which usually makes it worth it for me, even if I have to save a while for it.

On a different slant...

There appears to be some perverse economic principle that drives upward the price of quality items to the degree that a cheaper substitute exists. What was formerly merely good-quality becomes luxury goods. I'm sure economists have an explanation, but I don't like it. Examples abound, but here are two, both based on wool: The kinds of quality-everyday-wear wool pants that were common when my father was a kid (late 40's early 50's) are pricy and obscure today. And I think you just can't buy the Woolrich shirt today that my uncle wore as a teenager -- I have never seen such detailed weave and luxurious feel in anything contemporary. Not that they were wealthy, quite the opposite in fact. They were "everyday poor" like everyone else, in a small mill town, and raised a cow, chickens, and a few pigs to make ends meet by bartering away the hams and butter for credit at the general store.

So next time you're rationalizing^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H contemplating that next purchase, perhaps you can consider yourself to be "striking a blow" against this downward trend by supporting the remaining people who build things with quality wink

Steve
_________________________
"After I had solaced my mind with the comfortable part of my condition, I
began to look round me, to see what kind of place I was in, and what was
next to be done"

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#116630 - 12/20/07 03:00 AM Re: Gear idolization...anyone else have this problem? [Re: cxrc]
rescueguru Offline
Wanderer
Member

Registered: 09/02/06
Posts: 119
Loc: Southeastern USA
Welcome cxrc. I completely understand your mindset. For a long time I had the same thought process. Now I use the gear to make sure it will withstand the rigors of survival duty. Use it, but keep it well maintained. Service and periodic inspection is paramount to all gear functioning correctly when the "real" events hits. Also, be totally familiar with all your tools and equipment. Use them routinely and practice seldom used skills. We tend to "fight like we train".
_________________________
Forever... A long time to be dead!
Staunch advocate of the First, Second, and Fourth Amendments

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#116632 - 12/20/07 03:12 AM Re: Gear idolization...anyone else have this problem? [Re: rescueguru]
digimark Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 01/28/07
Posts: 70
Loc: Chesapeake Beach, MD
I have some expensive gear too, but I force myself not to be troubled when something gets used and needs replacing.

To my mind the only thing more wasteful than spending $300 on a flashlight (for example) is not using it when you need it. So justify the purchase(s) by using them. The more you use them, the easier it will be and your skills using them will grow too.

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#116639 - 12/20/07 04:19 AM Re: Gear idolization...anyone else have this probl [Re: thechaplain]
hiker1 Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 10/17/07
Posts: 79
Loc: Missouri
Hmmm...Knives and backpacks. I idolize Arc'teryx backpacks, and I use them constantly...but I'm also extra careful to not unnecessarily abuse them. I want them to last a long time and stay in great shape to cover the serious emergency I hope I never find myself in. Otherwise I use them everyday with reasonable care. I bought every one of them on a reduced price sale, usually 50 to 60% off at my local retailer. I'm just patient and wait until the right time to buy or make a deal with the manager.

Last count I have 13 pieces of a variety of Arc'teryx backpacks and butt packs, but again at substantially reduced prices. Most of them are day packs so I rotate them for the fun of it.
If I really want to abuse a backpack I'll use a GI combat patrol pack.

Then there are knives; I buy high quality production knives and again I use them with reasonable care; so much of the time they remain in good to excellent condition with minimal signs of wear. I don't need to rip open a can with my Kabar to prove it will do it. I know it will do it, so why scratch the heck out of the finish for nothing?

This evening I needed to go to my car a couple of times, but couldn't do it due to a loose, aggressive mixed breed dog. He became such a problem I called Animal Control to come and get him. But while trying to get to my car, if he had attacked me, I wouldn't care if my Kabar picked up some blemishes.

And in response to "The Chaplain"; I'm repacking and checking my BOBs all the time, making adjustments for the weather, etc. My wife doesn't mind it for me to do this to take care of US if something happens and its needed. And she likes the fact that I take my gear with me even on short fishing and hiking ventures. I won't find myself in a spot like the Christmas tree hunters. I hope they learned something. (they were lucky to be found in time).

And my favorite watch: military style $36.00 Timex Expedition
Favorite flashlight: Maglight with AA batteries. Works good enough for me and cheap enough to replace.



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#116646 - 12/20/07 04:36 AM Re: Gear idolization...anyone else have this probl [Re: digimark]
haertig Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 2322
Loc: Colorado
I usually buy decent gear, but not ridiculously expensive gear. So I'm not so worried about using it. There's a point of diminishing returns in my view. For example, I usually carry a Spyderco knife (a Native, or a Byrd Meadowlark or Robin which are great knives for the price). We're talking $20-$50 knives here. I don't carry a $400 Sebenza. I really doubt the Sebenza would do any more for me (functionally) than the Spydercos. Collecting is one thing - day to day use is another. I've got tons of moderately priced LED lights. None has ever failed me except the ARC-AAA (a light which many people used to idolize, and is relatively expensive for what it is). No multi-hundred dollar flashlights here.

Some things you have to pay handsomely to get good quality. Do it. Other things have good quality at decent prices. Then there are the things that add 1% on top of your decent gear (if that), but cost 10x as much. This latter group is simply not worth it to me, unless you want to collect it or idolize it.

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#116663 - 12/20/07 08:38 AM Re: Gear idolization...anyone else have this probl [Re: yeti]
TheSock Offline
Addict

Registered: 11/13/07
Posts: 471
Loc: London England
Wouldn't the solar powered Casio watch solve the 'sending away to replace batteries' problem?
They tested a G shock on the gadget show here in the UK. Stuck an 80 pound one (160 dollars) behind a gritter truck and sprayed it, then dunked it in minus 20 water. Neither had any effect. Then they used it as a hockey puck! Considering pucks can move at 100 miles an hour this really was a test to destruction. Eventually it fell apart of course, but not till it had been slammed scores of times. A 1000 pound navy seal watch had the same test and did no better.
On 'the not wanting to use gear' thing. As has been said on another recent thread; lending gear is a mistake.
'It's better to give than to receive and it costs the same'.
If it is survival gear, do you really want to use it. You want it pristine for when you are in a survival situation.
The Sock
_________________________
The world is in haste and nears its end – Wulfstan II Archbishop of York 1014.

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#116667 - 12/20/07 12:46 PM Re: Gear idolization...anyone else have this problem? [Re: cxrc]
Andy Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/13/07
Posts: 378
Loc: SE PA
Originally Posted By: cxrc
So does anyone else have this problem, or am I just really weird?


Welcome! I think to some degree we'll all have that 'problem' and while I can't tell if you're weird wink from your post I do think you raise a legitimate question. My basic operating principal is I buy stuff to use. Generally I buy mid-priced stuff of good quality. My problem is I tend to buy a lot of it. Do I really need to EDC 4 LED lights? No, but redundancy is good, right?

If you buy a tool you shouldn't worry about using it. If it's a good tool and you use it the way it should be used, then it's doing the job for which it was made. If you buy a tool for its future collector's value then don't ever take it out of the box.

Bottom line, use but don't abuse.
_________________________
In a crisis one does not rise to one's level of expectations but rather falls to one's level of training.

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#116677 - 12/20/07 01:56 PM Re: Gear idolization...anyone else have this problem? [Re: cxrc]
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
Welcome Newguy!

If you don't use it, how do you know that it will actually work? Use your stuff. If you wear it out, replace it, and use that...
_________________________
OBG

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#116679 - 12/20/07 01:58 PM Re: Gear idolization...anyone else have this problem? [Re: Andy]
jenkinma Offline
Stranger

Registered: 09/13/07
Posts: 23
Loc: GA
I think it was Will Rogers that said "always buy the best you can afford" (or some such thing). I think it applies here with an eye on usage and quality.

Portions of my EDC goes into (and comes from) my "10 essentials" that I have always in the woods (with Scouts) so my stuff is definitely used, but with proper care and maintenance, you can use quality stuff for a long time, despite cosmetic blemishes introduced while using smile
_________________________
Ever forward and upward!

-Matt

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