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#115428 - 12/11/07 02:59 AM Re: Medical Supplies [Re: Microage97]
ironraven Offline
Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
"Probably" is not "certainty". In my family we have no shortage of current and former EMS personnel, and we don't bother to have sutures in our big box of medical stuff. Most people are needle happy and it can turn a "may die" into a "will die" if you've never done this before (and reading about it doesn't count). In a "will die", sure, but those often involve more than "just" sewing.

Remember, a suture is a surgical procedure.
_________________________
-IronRaven

When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

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#115430 - 12/11/07 03:02 AM Re: Medical Supplies [Re: MDinana]
hiker1 Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 10/17/07
Posts: 79
Loc: Missouri
Interesting video on the suturing techniques. Basically, it was all reliable information, but for the untrained and inexperienced, it will be more difficult than it looks, especially on a family member or friend. Note that the examples provided were relatively MINOR uncomplicated wounds.


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#115442 - 12/11/07 04:46 AM Re: Medical Supplies [Re: hiker1]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
I am having a difficult time visualizing a situation where I would have to suture someone. Actually, I can't think of any.

If you want to sew on someone, do it on yourself, then you're sure to know where to place the blame. Take everyone else to a doctor.

If you don't clean the wound properly, you will be enclosing filth in the wound. If you touch the needle or suture material with dirty hands, or drag it across non-sterile material, you'll be contaminating the wound with the needle and/or suture material.

If skin was removed during the injury (like a bullet crease, for example), in an area where the skin is normally fairly tight, you could be causing more problems by trying to close skin that shouldn't be closed completely.

Just clean the wound as well as you can, put a bandage over it, and wrap it snugly but not too tight. If your patient/victim complains of numbness, or fingers or toes are swelling, etc, it's too tight.

I also understand that if you are wrapping a hand or foot firmly to help stop bleeding, you should wrap the WHOLE hand or foot. Don't wrap the wound tightly and leave the fingers and toes exposed, and turn the bandage into a tourniquet.

Sue


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#115451 - 12/11/07 09:26 AM Re: Medical Supplies [Re: hiker1]
MDinana Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/08/07
Posts: 2208
Loc: Beer&Cheese country
Originally Posted By: hiker1
The trouble is, the variety of suture to match with the injury runs into the hundreds of varieties. There is a vast difference between the suture I would use on the bottom of a foot versus the face on a young lady, or to resolve deep wounds with a chromic suture. And there is a vast variety of suture thickness, flexibility, braided, non-braided, nylon, silk, etc. along with a vast variety of needle sizes and styles. There is also a variety of suturing techniques depending on the nature of the wound: soft tissue injury, muscle damage, tendon damage, vascular and nerve damage, etc.


All very, very good points. My first post was aimed more at the superficial lacs that need only simple interrupted sutures. Getting beyond the fascial plane, and field suturing is going to be an extremely poor idea.

I've got a kit personally, and about 2 dozen sutures (from 2-0 to 6-0, vicryl, prolene, gut and silk). I don't even take it with me on backpacking trips, and I'm "trained" to do it. I guess that shows how great an idea it is!

Remember everyone, wounds WILL heal even without sutures. It takes time and may leave an ugly scar, but it's safer than closing a contaminated wound.

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#115452 - 12/11/07 12:06 PM Re: Medical Supplies [Re: MDinana]
Microage97 Offline
Pack Rat
Member

Registered: 04/21/07
Posts: 138
Loc: St. Paul MN
Hello All, thanks for your thoughts and ideas. Ya I don't think that I will be sewing on anyone after some thinking. I would use those butterfly band aid sutures in a survival situation without access to a doctor. I believe you can even use supper glue sparingly to somewhat close a cut leaving a drain spot. I certainly don't want an abscess.

I am just thinking that I should have a few more items to cover everyday issues as will as a longer term survival situation.

Dave
_________________________
Even paranoids have enemies.

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#115556 - 12/12/07 02:13 AM Re: Medical Supplies [Re: Microage97]
ironraven Offline
Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
Supper glue? As in really nasty canned white sauce? Bad idea, it is a great growth medium. smile

Super glue, I'd limit to small things, and I think our better trained medical persons will back me on this. One thing I will say is if you are planning on using super glue, the medical counterpart, or even just NuSkin, try it first. The stuff stings like mad.
_________________________
-IronRaven

When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

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#115569 - 12/12/07 03:03 AM Re: Medical Supplies [Re: ironraven]
CANOEDOGS Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 1853
Loc: MINNESOTA

Petbond works just fine..i carry and use it mostly on small
cuts on fingers where you are flexing that part and a band-aid
woun't stay..great if you are getting hands and fingers wet
all the time..

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#115570 - 12/12/07 03:03 AM Re: Medical Supplies [Re: NightHiker]
hiker1 Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 10/17/07
Posts: 79
Loc: Missouri
Well, I'm impressed with the contents of your FAK. Wow! Are you in EMS?

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#115763 - 12/13/07 05:24 AM Re: Medical Supplies [Re: NightHiker]
hiker1 Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 10/17/07
Posts: 79
Loc: Missouri
I left EMS 27 years ago but then moved into medical admin and management for 15 years. Quit that 10 years ago and people you work with will still search you out for medical advice and will be dragged by the arm to someone with a medical emergency in the workplace. Once a medic, always a medic. You just thought you left it behind. I still keep a substantial kit and have had occasion to use it, unfortunately.

I didn't do 20 active duty,but I did 8. It was enough, but all together I did 24 years in hospitals. clinics and independent duty in a variety of roles.

Best of luck in whatever you do...., Doc. (sound familiar)

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#115786 - 12/13/07 02:06 PM Re: Medical Supplies [Re: Microage97]
MtnRescue Offline
Newbie

Registered: 12/12/07
Posts: 30
Loc: NoVA
Dave,

Before you run off and get too much medical supplies, for what purpose will your FA kit will serve? Is it for your hiking/backpacking needs, you and the family, etc. I'd suggest if you haven't already done so, get at least a Wilderness First Aid (WFA) or even a Wilderness First Responder (WFR) (depending on the need) certification. WFA is about 18-24 hours and WFR is about 80 hours of training. Well worth it if you're outdoors a fair amount of time.

There are several organizations (even some community colleges) that you can get your cert from, here are a few:

National Outdoor Leadership School (NOLS)

Wilderness Medical Associates

Stonehearth Open Learning Opportunities (SOLO)

Originally Posted By: Microage97
Hello All,

What do most people do for medical supplies? We have a first aid kit, but maybe we should have some other items on hand.

Dave


Edited by MtnRescue (12/13/07 02:07 PM)
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Wilderness Search and Rescue . . . . smrg.org.

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