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#115162 - 12/08/07 06:14 PM Re: Do you carry aspirin? [Re: JCWohlschlag]
Shadow_oo00 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/21/07
Posts: 301
Loc: Pennsylvania, USA
So what should we do if we're out hiking and have a heart attack / Stroke and there is no cell phone reception and no chance of getting help anytime soon ???
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#115165 - 12/08/07 06:30 PM Re: Do you carry aspirin? [Re: Shadow_oo00]
bsmith Offline
day hiker
Addict

Registered: 02/15/07
Posts: 590
Loc: ventura county, ca
Originally Posted By: Shadow_oo00
So what should we do if we're out hiking and have a heart attack / Stroke and there is no cell phone reception and no chance of getting help anytime soon ???


i would hope that it is not yet my time to go. but if it was, then i'd try to realize what a great setting i was in and go peacefully. for me, better in the woods doing something i like rather than in a hospital with death being prolonged.

if not your time yet, rest up, try to weather the immediate storm, and when possible get out. exercise will increase the damage.

after working in ers for many years it became apparent to me that when your time was up, your time was up.

i saw people who never should have died - young and/or good health otherwise, found immediately, cpr / first aid begun instantly, excellent pre-hospital care, finest mds and nurses, patient died. i saw others who should have died - all that could possibly be wrong with the above scenario, was - and who survived. go figure.


bsmith
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#115166 - 12/08/07 06:38 PM Re: Do you carry aspirin? [Re: bsmith]
Hacksaw
Unregistered


I'm not sure I could even identify somebody having a heart attack vs some other critical condition.

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#115167 - 12/08/07 06:51 PM Re: Do you carry aspirin? [Re: bsmith]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
Originally Posted By: bsmith
. . . i would hope that it is not yet my time to go. but if it was, then i'd try to realize what a great setting i was in and go peacefully. for me, better in the woods doing something i like rather than in a hospital with death being prolonged. . . .

bsmith
I couldn't have said it better. I'd rather be found later by the next hiker down the trail than end up in a convalescent center waiting for my turn.

Better yet. . . I've noticed a trend that when people who are in very good physical condition (read athletes) have a heart attack, it's usually catastrophic and they are DRT. Folks who are out of shape have a slower heart attack and they have time to take aspirin and call an EMT. Anybody else notice this or am I seeing a trend that's not real? I'd rather go with the first group; ie., doing something active that I enjoy one moment and BOOM -- game over, DRT.
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#115168 - 12/08/07 07:07 PM Re: Do you carry aspirin? [Re: ]
marduk Offline
Member

Registered: 01/25/04
Posts: 160
Loc: Mid-Missouri
As a practicing Cardiologist I deal with this daily. Aspirin (if not given before arrival) is one of the first things given to chest pain patients upon arrival to the ER. It should not routinely be given to someone suspected of having a stroke without further testing first. Both heart attacks and stroke may present with atypical or confusing symptoms, BUT rarely (never?) are they confused with each other.

Heart attack an Stroke Warning Signs:
http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=3053


Additional statements from the American College of Cardiology re: aspirin use with heart attacks:

http://www.acc.org/qualityandscience/clinical/pdfs/UA_NSTEMI_Final_pocketpullout.pdf

http://www.acc.org/qualityandscience/clinical/guidelines/stemi/index_pkt.pdf page 14


The American Heart Assoc. site has additional comments on the effects of NSAIDS (Tylenol, Motrin, etc.)
As it relates to heart attacks (use the search function)


Discussion at the Wilderness Medicine meetings relative to “wilderness cardiology” usually revolve around the use of aspirin and possibly beta-blockers. In “wilderness” (or “survival”) situations your resources for emergent cardiac care are usually pretty limited. Urgent evacuation (if possible) is usually you best option.


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#115169 - 12/08/07 07:29 PM Re: Do you carry aspirin? [Re: marduk]
Shadow_oo00 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/21/07
Posts: 301
Loc: Pennsylvania, USA
Marduk & JCWohlschlag

Thanks for those links, great information.
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Shadow out !!!

Prepare Or Not To Prepare That Is The Question. The Answer, You Better !!!

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#115171 - 12/08/07 09:38 PM Re: Do you carry aspirin? [Re: Russ]
JIM Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 1032
Loc: The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: RAS
Originally Posted By: JIM
Originally Posted By: Leigh_Ratcliffe
Unless you are an M.D. you SHOULD NOT give asprin to a suspected heart attack victim.

Get them to lie down. Elevate their limbs. Keep them calm. Call 911.

The reason thay you DO NOT give it is that it is very difficult for untrained individuals to differentiate between a heart attack victim and someone who is suffering a stroke.

If it is a stroke you will kill them.


A stroke is basically the same thing as a heart-attack, just in different places. Giving aspirin to someone with a stroke won'kill him. Maybe you mean a aneurysm or internal bleeding?

I personally carry Acethaminophen, Ibuprofen and Asperin. This gives you some options in case someone is allergic, has GI-complains, etc.
Don't confuse headaches and heart attacks. Acethaminophen/Tylenol is great for a simple headache, but the reason Aspirin is used in suspected heart attacks is for its anti-platelet (blood-thinning) properties. AFAIK Acetaminophen and Ibuprofen do not have anti-platelet properties.

Be careful when using Acetaminophen, the side-effects can be extremely harmful to your liver.

I carry Aspirin and Ibuprophen/Motrin.

I'm not a doctor and don't play one on the web, so don't take the above as medical advice, talk a real doctor.


Acethaminophen is by far the safest of the bunch. There's a risk of liver-damage, but that's only after a long period and a high concentration of the stuff.

If you put it in contrast, the chances of getting stomach-problems with Ibuprofen are far greater than the chance of liver-problems with Acethaminophen..


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''It's time for Plan B...'' ''We have a Plan B?'' ''No, but it's time for one.'' -Stargate SG-1

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#115172 - 12/08/07 10:33 PM Re: Do you carry aspirin? [Re: JCWohlschlag]
hiker1 Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 10/17/07
Posts: 79
Loc: Missouri
I just started carrying half/dose aspirin per my doctor's recommendation and to take one daily. But I carried it anyway in my FAK.

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#115175 - 12/08/07 11:19 PM Re: Do you carry aspirin? [Re: JIM]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
As I recall, I've never been prescribed Tylenol, but I have been prescribed Motrin (in the 800 mg form) on more than one occasion as an anti-inflammatory. For me, aspirin works just fine for minor headaches (with the dual use of being available for heart attacks) although I probably should add Tylenol to the kit for others who are aspirin intolerant.

That said, when the side effect of one drug is an ulcer and the side effect of another is death, I'll risk getting an ulcer. YMMV
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Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
Okay, what’s your point??

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#115176 - 12/09/07 12:05 AM Re: Do you carry aspirin? [Re: teacher]
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
Yup. I take one every morning, along with a handful of prescription meds and some vitamins, and carry more along, in case of the big one. Or a simple headache. Then do not bother my stomach at all, nor do the 800mg motrin I take on a pretty regular basis for my bum back. A co-worker got chest pains at the office one night, his partner had him pop an aspirin then ran him over to the hospital...minor heartattack, no damage, thanks, according to the dr, to the aspirin...
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