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#115015 - 12/07/07 02:47 AM One year since James Kim died.
digimark Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 01/28/07
Posts: 70
Loc: Chesapeake Beach, MD
He was someone I watched regularly on TechTV and while I have always been interested in survival tools and techniques, what his family went through gave me the "official" blessing of my wife to talk openly about it as if I weren't nuts, and to spend some money on kits.

A year later I read ETS forums almost every day, have both car and personal kits established and have started camping trips, something I've wanted to do for a long time. I'm sure the ETS forums picked up a lot of new members a year ago.

There are some interesting follow-up articles posted here and here in the last week.

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#115051 - 12/07/07 04:55 PM Re: One year since James Kim died. [Re: digimark]
Mike_in_NKY Offline
Member

Registered: 05/22/07
Posts: 121
Loc: KY
Thanks for the update. I didn't realize James worked with CNET, a site I visit often.

That story also spurred me into action taking a more proactive approach to car kits and home supplies. My wife still thinks I'm nuts "its never happened to me or my family". It only has to happen once to be tragic.

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#115056 - 12/07/07 06:12 PM Re: One year since James Kim died. [Re: digimark]
billym Offline
Addict

Registered: 12/01/05
Posts: 616
Loc: Oakland, California
Wow a year has gone by so quickly.

I still have a prblem with the attitude in the first article.
"Oregon has learned form its mistakes...."
"police officers didn't know how to track a cell phone......"

The media is still blaming others.
Bill


Edited by billym (12/08/07 01:07 AM)

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#115067 - 12/07/07 08:20 PM Re: One year since James Kim died. [Re: billym]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 3238
Loc: Alberta, Canada
A preventable tragedy always brings the greatest sadness.

There were so many opportunities for this to end differently.

I guess anyone who wants to play the 'blame game' will find there's lots to go around.

Personally, out of respect for a lost man who showed courage and his family, I choose not to go that route.

The best tribute is for all to learn to do better.

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#115107 - 12/08/07 02:36 AM Re: One year since James Kim died. [Re: digimark]
cedfire Offline
Addict

Registered: 07/10/03
Posts: 659
Loc: Orygun
The BLM has placed a new warning sign in the area where the Kim family took a wrong turn from the main route and is planning to put up a kiosk in the future with maps and information on the route.

Interesting to note that in the last decade roughly 40 people have become stranded in the same area after making the wrong turn as well. This includes at least one other fatality in addition to James Kim.

Unfortunately, I doubt Mr. Kim's tragic death will be the last.

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#115114 - 12/08/07 03:49 AM Re: One year since James Kim died. [Re: cedfire]
Art_in_FL Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2432
My understanding is that there were one or more gates that were left open. Had they been closed so that Kim would have had to get out of his car to open them he would have had much more of a warning and likely would have realized how far off course he was.

Always seemed to me that someone should have been charged with leaving the gate/s open. Maintaining an 'attractive nuisance' or reckless endangerment would seem to apply. I'm not sure anyone should do time but there are standards that must be maintained. A well publicized prosecution and a fine of $50 that makes it clear their part and blame in this loss would IMHO do a lot to make people more aware. Carelessness and reckless casualness about keeping those gate/s closed set up a trap. A trap that Kim drove into.

Kim screwed up. He was not prepared and he was not nearly careful enough in risking his family. He did a lot of things right once in the middle of it but he was far too overconfident. By the time he realized he was in trouble he was very deep in the trap.

Sad.


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#115173 - 12/08/07 10:46 PM Re: One year since James Kim died. [Re: Art_in_FL]
norad45 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/01/04
Posts: 1506
Quote:
My understanding is that there were one or more gates that were left open. Had they been closed so that Kim would have had to get out of his car to open them he would have had much more of a warning and likely would have realized how far off course he was.

Or maybe he would have kept going. Where is the evidence to suggest he would have all of a sudden wised up?
Quote:
Always seemed to me that someone should have been charged with leaving the gate/s open.

That makes about as much sense as posthumously charging Mr. Kim with tresspassing.
Quote:
Carelessness and reckless casualness about keeping those gate/s closed set up a trap. A trap that Kim drove into.


"Trap" implies that somebody lured Mr. Kim to his doom. Seems to me he found his end all by his lonesome.

Quote:
Kim screwed up.


He sure did.

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#115187 - 12/09/07 02:45 AM Re: One year since James Kim died. [Re: Art_in_FL]
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
"...A well publicized prosecution and a fine of $50 that makes it clear their part and blame..."

It would also open the door for a civil suit that might not be appropriate...
_________________________
OBG

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#115200 - 12/09/07 04:17 AM Re: One year since James Kim died. [Re: OldBaldGuy]
Art_in_FL Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2432
Gates aren't just rural decorations. They are markers that serve to delineate the main road from the logging roads and warn people. Closed they demand that you get out to open them. The difference between main and logging roads is not as clear as it might be on curving roads after the logging trucks have covered the main drag with mud. In the cold, wet and with the windows a bit fogged the difference is even less apparent.

I have seen this in various mountains in bad weather and even down here in Florida. I didn't always live down here. Of course getting lost in the sticks of Florida generally doesn't get you killed. As long as the gators or mosquitoes don't get you. The locals don't need or like the gates. Local rangers spend time closing them. Locals know the roads so they are seen as a PITA by people who don't know or care. It is the people traveling through that need them.

Used to be country folks looked out for each other and were willing to make minor sacrifices to help keep people on the right track. You open a gate you close it behind you.

The effect of leaving the gate open was to set a trap. That people are unwilling to accept the need to protect others by exercising what used to be considered common courtesy just shows how the rural culture has deteriorated.

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#115208 - 12/09/07 08:29 AM Re: One year since James Kim died. [Re: Art_in_FL]
cedfire Offline
Addict

Registered: 07/10/03
Posts: 659
Loc: Orygun
The Kim family was intending to follow USFS Road 23 (aka "Bear Camp Road"), a single-lane, paved, windy, twisty, scenic road that more-or-less links (in good weather) the rural area near Interstate 5 to the Oregon coast.

That they even intended to follow that road to the coast was a mistake. This road is not maintained in the winter months and is prone to snowstorms, mudslides, and rock slides. There is no gate stopping anyone from traveling this road. Sure, you could try to attempt it in the winter, but it would be sheer insanity.

Making matters even worse, they turned off this paved road onto an unpaved, dead-end, spur road. They were able to turn off onto this road because the gate in question had been unlocked and left open by vandals.

Eventually, down this spur road, is where they got stranded and the tragedy unfolded.

To even get to that point the Kim family had to pass not one, not two, but about four or five bright yellow warning signs that unequivocally stated the road they wanted to travel on was closed by snowfall/weather conditions. In addition, maps list the road they were trying to use as "Closed in Winter".

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#115220 - 12/09/07 04:13 PM Re: One year since James Kim died. [Re: digimark]
ki4buc Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/10/03
Posts: 710
Loc: Augusta, GA
I found this page that shows the intended route, actual route, and route that James took to find rescue. This picture is the most up-to-date routes. The rest of the pages show different views based upon the initially reported vehicle position.

A lot of things went wrong. This is a lesson to constantly stop and re-evaluate your plan. Seems here simple survival tools would have gave him the information he needed to evaluate his plan.

Edited to add: I don't know if I would or would not have made the same decisions he did. I've just learned you need to take a look at the big picture occasionally, if you can.

Edited again to add: I looked at the "wrong turn" he made in Google Earth. It reminds me of many roads here in the Northeast. The map makes it look like you keep going straight, but no, you have to make a left or right turn onto a road that looks like a side street. That looks like what was presented to James Kim.

Google Maps - James Kim map points

The wrong turn is #4.



Edited by ki4buc (12/09/07 04:34 PM)

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#115223 - 12/09/07 04:44 PM Re: One year since James Kim died. [Re: digimark]
teacher Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 12/14/05
Posts: 988
A good reminder to update your car kits; food, sleeping bags, tools, winter clothing, etc. Especially important if you travel with kids

t.


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#115224 - 12/09/07 04:53 PM Re: One year since James Kim died. [Re: digimark]
cedfire Offline
Addict

Registered: 07/10/03
Posts: 659
Loc: Orygun
Yes, a very good reminder. I'm thinking about going for the modular approach, with a main kit with add-on parts for different seasons.

I think sometimes people (myself included) get so focused on "getting there" that they forget for a moment to stop and think.

I've been on some remote roads that, in all honesty, I shouldn't have. One of these roads was suggested by a reputable local of the area as a shortcut but halfway up my common sense got the better of me and I turned around.

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