Hi folks,

I'm planning on a bit of a simulation soon now that it's south of freezing here every day but before it snows too much. I want to test my survival gear in sort of worst case scenario so I know what works and what won't. Here's what I have planned. Please feel free to chime in with your thoughts as I don't want to have to do this too many times hehehe.

The scenario is that I'm ice fishing and have pulled a small sled out onto the ice. Through out the day I have moved farther and farther onto the lake to find good fishing and have stayed too long. It's getting dark and windy and starting to snow. I know that I can't get back to my vehicle before it gets dark and I forgot to mark that way point on my GPS (or the batteries are frozen). My personal sense of direction stinks so I'm going to assume I have no idea (E,S,N,or W) which direction I was going in while I was walking out onto the lake...too excited about fishing I suppose. I'm going to assume that I'll have to stay one night where I am, then pack up and try to get to shore while I have food and water (which I carry normally). I'm further going to assume I walk in the wrong direction in the morning and don't hit shore by the time it gets dark as it's still snowing and I can't see it from where I'm at, forcing me to stay another night (in my simulation I'll stay put but I'll shoot for extra calories anyhow to make sure I can prep it all with the gear I have). Then I either find the car on the 3rd day or trees where I can build proper camp while I have energy and a signal fire...sitting waiting for rescue (or the snow to stop...at which point I'd likely be 100 yards from my Jeep with my luck )

To accomplish this I'll stay 2 nights out in my parents back yard or drive way with no wood or fire beyond what I can build out of my pack. I might not be able to be picky about the temperature but I'm going to try and wait until it's 25 below (-13F) as anything less, while cold, isn't THAT cold around here...plus the colder the better as I won't be able to simulate the full wind chill a lake has to offer. I'll set up on the ground and utilize all my gear, staying out there for 2 nights and 2.5 days. I'll eat and drink only out of my pack OR drink only water melted from ice. I can't assume I'll have fish to eat as out in the wild I might not have the option. This scenario also removes the option to build a shelter from scratch, make bough beds, or use natural terrain for shelter (snow cave, felled trees, etc). In fact I won't even be able to drive tent pegs into the ground...a challenge indeed!

In the interest of science I'm willing to compromise on certain things if the alternative is giving up. Like starving if I don't have proper food to eat. I may start a fire if my stoves fail me using standard firewood...assuming I busted up the sled from the scenario to burn (though this won't be much of a fire). I may also 'obtain' some water should I not be able to melt any...then change the story to assume I came in with it and was careful not to let it freeze...I think I'm prepared enough that it won't come to that however.

The questions I'd like to answer (in general) are:

• How hard is it to set up my planned shelter with no trees or rocks or anything (even ground to put pegs in).
• Can my selected gear stand up to the cold?
• Can my selected gear stand up to the wind?
• Is my food/rations eatable in that temperature?
• Can I effectively melt water to drink and cook in?
• Will my sleeping bag/shelter system be warm enough?
• Just how useless are my batteries at that temperature?
• Is the AMK 2.0 Bivy I just bought any help in this scenario?
• What do I have which is useless (to be ditched later for weight savings).

I may add to this post between now and then as I'm doing a 2 night Survival Trek with the Boreal Institute in a couple of weeks...some of my questions may be answered...but the survival situations emulated on the Trek are VERY different from what I have laid out above. Also, the Trek assumes you're not outfitted with an insane amount of gear (like I like to be) and I'll have little more than the basics to help me out.

Again, feel free to put your 2 cents in...especially if you know how to drive aluminum tent pegs into solid ice hehehe.

In this scenario are you carrying your entire pack or just the survival gear? I know that I don't carry a full pack for day trip fishing but I do carry my small day bag. I would also be dressed in layers for he weather with possibly another light jacket for later in the evening
DAY BAG CONTENTS
1 compass
1 MRE & misc. snacks
2 bandanas
1 pair leather gloves
1 baklava
1 pocket saw
1 esbit stove 4 fuel tablets
1 U.S. canteen and cup
1 AMK bivy bag
1 multi tool
1 led flashlight
1 schrade-folding knife
10 reusable 6" zip ties
12' Para cord
I normally have a heat sheet in the bag too, but when I started to write this I opened it up to make sure I was writing a correct list and found it missing.
I would limit my test to what I would normally carry, since that is all you will realistically have.

Forget Aluminium tent pegs, get titanium pegs as they are much more durable. If you've got a Leatherman with a bit driver, you can adapt a standard 6 milimetre drill bit to fit into the bit driver. This should be able to drill into the ice just enough to insert a round section titanium peg.

What kind of tent do you have? A good geodesic type would be best. A Lightwave F2 Ultra tent weighs only 2.6Kg. These can some times be used without being pegged down especially if the fly has an additional snow skirt.
What would really be important is the insulation bewteen the ice and yourself. I would go for something like the Exped down inflatable matress (good to -40C) and a good 2Kg down bag or good synthetic such as a Snugpak softie 12 or Snugpak Antarctica for the temperatures you are envisaging.

Lithium Batteries will work down to -40C.

You may also need an axe to cut the ice to make water. You will probable need a good stove such as Primus Himalaya or MSR XGK to melt the ice.

You could use your AMK 2.0 Bivy as a vapour barrier liner if it gets really cold in conjuction with the sleeping bag.

In the scenario I could potentially have a lot with me because I'd be pulling a small sled...weight wouldn't be much of a factor. For me, I'd be well equipped simply because I like to be well equipped. It's unlikely I'd be without GPS or compass but for the sake of argument I'm assuming those have failed me (or I have)

I was assuming I'd be dressed warm in layers as I'd be stop and go walking throughout the day. Typically I'll wear the following for such a thing:

• Med weight synthetic, wicking, long johns
• Nylon wind proof pants (possibly the fleece lined kind, and waterproofed with Nikwax)
• Wool Socks
• Heavy boots with the foil lined style felt liners
• Wicking base layer of light wool or poly
• Poly shirt
• Windproof fleece jacket (waterproofed with NikWax)
• Windproof shell (covers the bum) with built in hood
• Poly glove liners
• Wool gloves or synthetic insulated mits
• Fleece head ever neck warmer
• Poly or Wool toque
• Wrap around sun glasses

I'd also be carrying at least one extra pair of glove liners, waterproof glove shells, 2 pair of extra socks (because I'll sweat...I always do), Goretex rain pants, and possibly a full change of clothes in case I get wet for some reason. I keep most of this stuff in an O.R. compression sack in my pack anyhow. It's a little heavy but nice and compact. Packed right it's easy to shed the extra weight if I don't need it all.

I don't. And that's where things get tricky. I haven't quite figured it out yet but I plan to use my Siltarp Poncho set up as an A-Frame or partial A-Frame using trekking poles (and maybe the fictional sled) as part of the structure. I need to figure out a way to anchor it all...your drill bit idea is interesting.

I'll have a space blanket ground sheet to reflect heat back and an air mattress to keep me up off the ice and eliminate heat loss by conduction.

Other than that I'll just have my sleeping bag and the AMK 2.0 Bivy...and a spare space blanket.

An uninsulated air mattress will not provide very good insulation and may actually pull more heat away from you due to convection within the matress. You should look at an insulated matress or a couple of foam pads.

If your tent can not be properly pegged down then it may become a large kite if you get strong winds. A good bivy bag might work better for short term shelter in an exposed area. If there is snow then it is fairly easy to build a quick trench shelter in combination with your tarp and bivy bag. It helps to take a small snow shovel but make sure that it has a metal rather than plastic blade as the plastic blades are not very good at digging in old/compacted snow.

You should always try to get to shore and higher ground as cold air will settle in lower areas and you will be very exposed out on a lake.

When traveling over frozen water you should also have quick access to ice picks that you can use to help pull your self out if you break through the ice. It is also important to keep your extra clothing etc. in a waterproof bag in the event that you get wet.

Hi Hacksaw,

In your scenario, the effects of windchill is not a minor issue. A tent will keep you sheltered much more efficiently than a windbreak sil tarp. A good tent will raise the air temperatue inside by anything up to 10-15C, if the air temperatue is say -15C. Using a candle latern such as the UHO candle latern will help even more to raise the inside temperature. The extra weight and bulk of the tent will be just as valuable as a using a sleeping bag.




If you want to keep weight and bulk down you could always use the following system from Alpkit. By using a very lightweight (450gm) half bag in conjuction with a down Jacket you could save on weight and bulk here on the sleeping system then make up the difference by getting a proper tent. Sometimes only a proper tent will do and good ones are very lightweight considering what they can acheive in this survival scenario.




On ice the air matress will probably require an addition pad underneath, something like a Thermarest Z-rest. This will dramatically improve the thermal resistance of the air matress for little additional weight but will be much more bulky.

Great suggestions guys. The hard truth is that the only reason I don't have a tent or bivy at the moment is that I haven't found a tent or bivy that I'm confident in (and which doesn't cost hundreds of dollars I don't have). I'd love to have a proper bivy in my pack and right now I'm weighing the pros and cons of picking up the REI bivy as the price is right. I bought the AMK bivy to see how it works as an emergency bivy. I think it will though I'm worried about condensation on the inside.

Am I the only one who loves the graphics Am_Fear_Liath_Mor puts in his posts?

Now you've got me researching R values for sleeping pads and air mattresses.

Air Mattresses can have an R Value of 1-5 depending on how well they convect inside. Mine is cheap and not rated for such things. I would guess it's better than 1.

The blue and yellow foam which is so common and popular has an R Value of about 1.36 with ultralight versions dipping down to 0.66 and 'winter' versions stretching to just above 2. Not as good as I'd have expected.

I read online that having a closed cell pad AND an air mattress provided awesome insulation...but I can't confirm that.

Of course the self inflating mattresses perform the best with down filled mattresses having R values of 8 or more...but the prices are 150 to 200 bucks.

The Thermarest RidgeRest deluxe has an R value of 3.1 and is available for around $30. Combine this with your air matress this will dramatically increase the insulation value.

http://www.thermarest.com/product_detail.aspx?pID=55&cID=3

Apparently Antarctic explorer Ben Saunders uses one with a air matress.

http://www.bensaunders.com/resources/expedition_kit.html

To get an idea of the R value of your current air matress you could compare it the thermarests on their website, typically a 2.5 cm thick matress will have about an R value of just slightly less about the same i.e 2.3
A 3.8cm thick matress is R rated at 3.2. You should be able to get a resonable idea of the R rating of your current air matress.