Hi All,

I have a household problem I hope you can help me with.

My 3 kids are becoming teeneagers and the 2 youngest (girls) wanted there own rooms, so this resulted in the oldest (boy) being moved out of his room (we did it while he was away at camp last summer) and the plan is that he will occupy my outdoor equipment room in the basement.

The problem is; "Where do I store all my great stuff, that it has taken me years to collect and I access daily"? I am not talking about the PSK's, FAK's, BOB's, emergency food, etc; I mean all the normal stuff that prepared people who also enjoy outdoor recreation accumulate.

At present I have most of it stored in solid colour Rubbermaid containers (I think they are about 60 L capacity). Because we moved around a lot throughout the 90's we now have about 75 of these containers. See-thru containers would help show what the contents are.

Even if you label the containers it is hard to know what all is in them (especially small stuff) and the item you want always seems to be on the bottom. Stacking them is a problem to get to the bottom bin so I have built 2x4 shelving to put these bins on (2 on bottom floor, 1 on middle row, 1 on top row).

My DW and I are also packrats and have a problem parting with functional items, even if we use them infrequently (this is surely the root cause of our lack of storage space). Big yard sale next spring already planned (I promise).

Before I start a major basement renovation project this winter I was hoping that someone on the forum had faced a similar problem before and found the "perfect outdoor equipment storage technique".

Please feel free to share you ideas,

Mike

What about a workshop w/ upstairs storage? Our local big box hardware store has a model w/ about 6m X 6m downstairs with about half that upstairs.

Hi UTAlumnus,

Thanks for the reply but I do not understand what you mean by upstairs - downstairs storage? Could you provide more details?

Do you mean a stand alone building seperate from the house for storage?

Mike

Short term:

R-organize the bins putting items that you have not used for at least a year and ensure that these bins are on the bottom....do not allow maybe, might, should, probably etc, cloud your judgment.

Now put a number on the front, side or lid then keep a list of their contents on a clipboard.

The best long term path is to scale down your pack rat lifestyle!

I like the numbering idea Sherpadog (I cannot see me being organized enough to do the clipboard, maybe).

You are truly correct about the "too much stuff lifestyle", I have to face reality and really get rid of unused junk.

Mike

You got it. Similar in shape to this except a wider footprint and a 2nd floor.

I would agree with UTALumnus but depending on where you live and your neighbors you could go with a less expensive metal storage shed. Which ever you decide to go with build shelves before start packing the stuff in.

WOW, you guys think BIG.

If I built a storage shed like that I could set it up with air conditioning, heat, electricity, running water, maybe a couch, fridge, TV/DVD and computer; that would be fabulous!

Wait, reality check; unfortunately my financial resources will not allow be to build another structure at this time (DW would flip if I even suggested it). For now I am going to have to store my stuff within the buildings I have (basement, attached garage, detached shed).

Thanks for letting me dream though,

Mike

P.S. Looking at the link you provided the cost of building material must be less in the US?

Put all that stuff on eBay.

I had started a big reply but its too late at night to finish it. In short build up. tops of closets are often wasted space. Measure the top shelf of each closet and build a duplicate of it about a foot higher and move all those hats and gloves and stuff up. then put your most important gear there and you have now emptied some space. Same with the garage, build shelves up. In the bottoms of closets get those shoe organizers and little pull out drawers. I've managed to consolidate each person's personal gear to their closet so then the garage and shed are all the shared stuff.

Good ideas Eugene, got any more?

Thanks,

Mike

Hi CDVXF7,

Call me a dinosaur but I have never bought or sold anything on eBay, I would not know where to start?

Mike

You really need to bite the bullet and think reduction. I have about 20 of those big plastic containers full of stuff, and I have manifested every one and still have trouble finding things, mostly cuz people just don't put stuff away proper. I've a bunch of gorilla racks that I use to stow the containers and other items. Usually, everything comes off the shelves and ends up on the floor in the garage; lid open, contents disarrayed and/or scattered around. So I guess my advice is for both of us.

I reckon my only option is gonna be to build a warehouse, rig up a robotics inventory control system, and just use my computer to call up whetever it is I am looking for. I was at a Honeywell lab once and was amazed at how their robotic inventory retrieval system worked, but man did it take up a lot of space!

My family solved the problem by never putting a vehicle in the garage. I never saw a family member with a grease spot on their garage floor. Of course, no one could see the floor because of all the stuff.

Sue

Hi Susan,

My DW has given me no option in this matter, she will be parking her van in the attached garage. She goes to work earlier in the morning than I do so it is actually easier for both of us, especially in the winter (no snow, ice or starting problems). Occasionally I fill the garage with large camping items from our youth group trips for the short-term, but I do hear about it from her. The sides of this garage are filled with a snowmobile, chainsaw box and more regular household items; the rear shed is where I store most of my large outdoor equipment (wall tents, stoves, ATV, treestands, outboard motors, bikes, etc).

It is really the residence basement storage area that I need to redesign for smaller outdoor equipment, preparedness supplies and clothing.

Bottom-line is that I have just too much stuff.

Thanks,

Mike

Hi benjammin,

I can really relate to the many open containers, gear scattered all over the place situation while packing for a trip; I have to go through that this afternoon in preparation for a muzzleloader deer hunt next weekend. I would be lost without the equipment lists I have developed over the years.

I have only met one person that had their equipment really well organized. He was a bush pilot/geologist I was working with whose house I got stranded at overnight because of bad weather. His large basement storage area was just like a warehouse; with free-standing shelves of labelled, inventoried equipment, it was impressive.

The big difference between between him and I is; 3 teenagers and all the space/stuff associated with them!

Trust me, I will live all my life with a messy basement for the opportunity to keep my kids close to me, it is going to be tough when they start to leave in a couple years.

Nice talking to ya,

Mike

I simply recycle excess, and finally unwanted stuff, through a local community auction,...so I have extra money to go buy more stuff.

The main alternative to reducing is organizing. I collected a lot of gear/tools/toys over the years and I would always be stacking things on top of each other and had piles falling over and things getting broken or lost. I started buying a lot of storage items, bags, boxes, etc. Start by putting a hold on buying anything new until you can get the current situation under control.

For example I started getting a lot of camping gear and had it piled on a shelf for the most part. I bought a big duffel bag similar to the tent bag and filled it up with all the camping gear like the air mattress, pump and lanterns and batteries. All my cooking supplies went into a backpack. Now instead of having boxes and gear piled on top of each other I have three bags which stack neatly and can be taken easily.

I made some simple rules, everything has to have a place, be it a box, bag, case or spot on the shelf. Then everything that goes with the first item has to be in its box, bag, etc.
Then everything must be inventoried, a separate spreadsheet for each large item, for example one for the bob, one for the edc, one for the camping gear, one for the drill press, etc. Everything must be listed, it sounds like a lot of work but its really not. Once you make your spreadsheet template you can take one storage container at a time and inventory everything and add to it as you put more in.
Then everything has to justify its self. Many organizational sites/books/whatever will say get rid of something if its not been used in x amount of time but I had to modify that system since some survival gear won't be used often, a fire extinguisher for example. So I kind of make a point scale, say a scale of 1-5, 5 being something most used, 1 being something seldom used, then assign a second point scale based on its survival/prep use which can cancel out the use scale.

Eugene, could you come to my house and do a little organizing? I have plenty of masks for dealing with the dust cattle....

Sue

Thanks for the ideas and Pep Talk Eugene,

I really need to stop accumulating and start reducing and organizing.

It is hard to do when you have collected stuff for so long; even today I acquired some small plastic snap containers (good for kits within a kit) and some very flexible aluminum that "some day" I am going to form into custom made fire billy cans.

I know, I have a problem, I hope admitting it is the first step toward a cure.

Mike

Don't feel bad, being a packrat is not really a disease,,,it's a way of life!!!! (and I'm eaten up with it)

I like the big rubbermaid type tubs, labeled, and stored on metal shelving. One advantage is that they are faily drip/dustproof.

Teacher

PS I've learned to label both ends and the top.

That's a good tip about labeling both ends and the top. I'll have to get my pen and labels out...

My wife went crazy a while back when she found Rubbermaid and Sterlite shoeboxes on sale. She got a lot of them, and I've been filling them up with different kit and EDC items. I've got some shelves that are dedicated to this. The only problem is that occasionally one of the cats will knock some of the boxes off and the lids aren't all that secure, so sometimes I have a box or two of stuff to pick up. I don't have my items inventoried in a spread sheet, but that's a good next step for me.

When we moved last time, we moved our books in Rubbermaid totes. It was readily apparent that we would not have room to set up bookshelves in our current house. When we packed the books, we gave letter names to the totes, and itemized each book that went into each tote. When I need something, it's quite easy to check the list to see where the book I want is...although the books did get packed in somewhat a random fashion, so searching for the title does take time. Come to think of it, I haven't seen the Word doc for the file lately...wonder if I've got that somewhere.

We're moving in a few months anyway...good time to itemize again I guess.

A while back I just happened to be driving down a street in town. Someone had their garage door open and I happened to glance over when I went by. Inside was the nicest storage setup I have ever seen. Shelves lined one wall and on each shelf, arranged in an OCD manner, was a banker's box filled with who knows what. There must have been 40+ boxes, at least.

Then I pull into my garage and see various bins and boxes scattered around. Nuts.

I feel your pain cedfire,

Tonight I started packing for another deer hunting trip next week and had 9 Rubbermaid Totes of clothing/gear scattered about the basement family room, when DW saw it she was not happy (really, really not happy).

I am in the doghouse again, good thing I am going away for a week; hope my cool stuff is not all on the front lawn when I get back!

Mike

Each day, I face a new wave of crap that people bring to my home for me to manage. We now have baby version 3.0 on the way, with an early March release date, and there's a bit of "getting ready" that needs to happen.

For a few years we were good with the stuff management, 2003-2007 have been, um....less good. But we're ending 2007 with clear direction and a Plan Of Action that seems to be working, if not as fast as I'd like.

Like you, we have scores of those Rubbermaid totes, which is both a good thing and a bad thing. For reasons that my "Y" chomosone prevents me from understanding fully, my wife has what amounts to basically continuous, daily chore that involves washing, sorting, folding, storing and unstoring articles of clothing that are forever arriving as gifts and hand-me-overs from others as well as departing for thrift shops and to the homes of other kids. As far as I can tell, at any given moment, 80% of the clothing in our home is either recently arrived, is about to depart or was left here by someone, we just don't know who. Add to this a need to manage a seemingly endless progression of kids clothes that are too small, too big, the wrong season or the wrong style. The launder-management, which differs in complexity from the launch of a telecommunications sattelite only in that the clothing does not end up in space, is the main use of most of our Rubbermaid totes and is my wife's contribution to the sotrage dillema we face.

Not wanting to be an unequal partner in the arrangement, I contribute to the storage dillema in my own way. First of all, there's always 3 to 5 computers in the basement in some state of dissassembly and re-assembly as I have this almost obsessive tendancy to rescue, rebuild, and give away computers. In any given month, I'll get 8 or 9 systems, from which I can usually build 4 or 5 fairly nice systems which I then give away. Well you can imagine what this means I have a lot of drawers full of hard drives, NIC cards, memory sticks, and the like. Now add to this the fact that I've never met a tool I didn't like, but my basement shop is only 14'x18'. And then add to this that I just KNOW that that coil of 650' of quad-sheild RG59 that I found will be handy one day, if I ever need it. Oh, and that milk crate full of all those NEMA L-15 Twist Lock connectors, that cold be useful for something. And that big trash bag of packing peanuts. I mean, it's a shame to throw them out right? They won't go bad, after all. Oh, and look at this folding table - it's perfectly good, they were throwing it in the trash!

Now, put this together, and you have a Storage Dillemma of Epic Proportions.

I know that the answer is a mass reduction of stuff, and at this moment, I think that's our single biggest challenge - simply getting the stuff OUT to the people and places that will take it. I did recently give away my old pickup truck, just because it was another thing to be managed, and I know that this weekend, I'm going to be hauling just huge quantities of old technology out of the house, for good. I know that 10GB hard drives were a big deal once, now they are space-wasters, and it's time to let go. I'm also going to apply the "I haven't touched this in a year" rule to a bunch of stuff, no matter how "useful" it might be. Or local Freecycle group is going to have a good week as I clear out the basement.

We have two kids now so I took some of my tools and bought some lumber and built a nice big dresser/changing table. I made the drawers as big as possible to get the most space.
I used to fix up old computers and give them away then so many people expected me to drive out to their homes and fix them or call you and have you walk them through how to do something. I finally took all the old stuff and ebay'ed like items together and gave away the rest. Now we have our laptops and another old one I picked up for my son and am looking for another one or two to start fixing up for my daughter and maybe a spare.
I bought one of those soft sided tool bags and put one or two of just about every part I had in it for a repair kit.
Any old Dell Latitude parts you have laying around I'll take to help you clear up space Doesn't matter how old since we run Linux wedon't need the multi G of ram needed to make windows run.

Ohh, saw mention of freecycle. Its run on Yahoo servers so don't put any more information than necessary, yahoo is very bad when it comes to selling information and privacy invasion, very very bad.

That's how I got the chair I'm using now. When I was moving into the apartment I use during the semester, someone had moved out of one of the others & maintenance cleaned out whatever they left behind. Right on top was a perfectly serviceable desk chair.

Freecycle has nothing to do with Yahoo any more than the Cubscouts have anything to do with Yahoo. Yahoo! has group communications tools, and a lot of people who create Freecycle groups like to use Yahoo to manage them, but it's not a Yahoo product, service or feature.

I know, because my wife and I are founders of TWO Freecycle groups!

Martin, you wanna feel better sometime, just come over and take a look at my garage.

There is a fixed ammount of stuff in my family, it just gets passed from father to son a little bit at a time every time they visit.

My grandfather lived through the great depression and never threw anything away since. He taught me how to pull nails from scrap wood, straighten, and re-use them.

There is also a fixed ammount of stuff in our town. Four times a year we put our unwanted "bulky items of refuse" on the curb and then drive around picking up stuff we do want from everybody else. The town claims that they pay to have this stuff collected and taken to the landfill but I think someone just pockets the money.

By the way, congratulations.

There is a warning in the Fiance 1.0 to Wife 1.0 migration documentation about the possibility of "spawning child processes" but who reads the manual?

I strongly recommend the maintenance contract for all versions of Baby. Earlier versions of Baby may conflict with the latest version from time to time, but uninstalling any of them is usually not an option.

Can't wait for Service Pack 2.

Things were so much more simple back before we even had Girlfriend 0.9 (beta) for DOS.

Congratulations Martin!! You are a braver man than I.

Um, can I send you a bunch of baby stuff we'd better not ever need again?

-Blast

Unfortunatly the freecycle mail goes through yahoo servers where they can scrape names and address from them. I get mail at my house for my mother in law, father in law and a deceased uncle of my wife's because they mixed up their names with our addresses. Every since yahoo started the whole popup ad business way back when they have turned into a crap company and I have learned to avoid anything that goes through any of their servers. They are a close second to AOL level when it comes to internet abuse.

As a person who is intimately familiar with Yahoo systems and practices, as working with Yahoo as a vendor is part of my job, I can assure you that IF such a thing were possible, it is not something that Yahoo does. For your supposition to be true, Yahoo would need to be running a real-time free-text parsing scheme AND people would need to have their name and address in the email OR they would have to have their name and address stored in their Yahoo general profile AND Freecycle.org, which is an autonomous 501(c)(3) organization run by a jackass fool who alienated people like me who now don't even assocate with the organzation, but continue to operate what WAS a freecycle group but IS NOT affiliated or endorced by Freecycle.org

But I digress.

Your assertion that Yahoo is in some way associated with your direct mail problems is unfounded.

The cross-contamination of consumer marketing and public record data data is both well-known and impossible to fix. For example, search for your own name on www.zabasearch.com - which is a company that has nothing at all in common with Yahoo. You'll find yourself facing a wall of partially correct data.

Pop-up ads were used first in 1995, long before Yahoo was famous or important. Wired.com was a heavy user of them, as was the New York Times.

Again, with a little research, you'll see that just because YOUR experience has been that Freecycle organizations YOU are aware of happen to use the Yahoo Groups system, it does not mean that Freecycle=Yahoo. It's like saying "I hate that TV show and Toshiba is to blame, because they make the TV I'm using to watch it" Toshiba just delivers the show, it does not create it or care what you watch. All Yahoo cares about is that you see and click on their ads on the sites. That's it.

Hey, SwampDonkey, glad to see I'm not the only one with this problem.

I think the solution is easier than you realize. That's because Rubbermaid tubs can be stored outdoors, under a basic lean-to, for years without noticeable degradation. They'll stand up to sub-freezing temperatures if handled gently, they'll keep out rodents/insects and direct moisture, and if they're kept out of sunlight they won't be any worse for wear.

I think you could build a stout but temporary lean-to on the side or back of one of your outbuildings for next to nothing. I assume you have access to wood already. For the roof/sides, you could use asphalt roll roofing, or consider heavy-duty UV-treated tarps. FWIW, I can personally recommend medium or heavy-weight plastic tarps from Integrated Plastics, a Canadian company; they make multi-layer "haystack" tarps that will last for 5+ years in direct sun, and mid-weight forest-green tarps that are good for a couple of years at least. Country hardware stores stock these, big box outlets don't.

As long as the tubs' contents can stand freezing temperatures, and some minor humidity changes, I really don't think you'll have a problem.

To control rodents (deer mice are the usual culprits, and the main worry where I am; they make a mess, and may carry hantavirus), a couple of thoughts:
a) a sheet metal barrier at least 18" high, tucked into the ground if possible, with no gaps
b) a scrap plywood barrier, same height, with a generous 2" stripe of axle grease all around; mice won't cross the stuff
c) bait pails (sealed against kid/pet access) inside the "perimeter"; I find the "one feeding kills" variant of warfarin to be highly effective.

Away, that's my two-cents' worth, and a bloody long post to boot. Hope this stimulates the creative juices, and helps restore domestic peace and harmony.

Cheers,
Doug

BTW, I'd drive a thousand miles for your garage/yard sale. I can hardly imagine the amount of cool stuff you'd be getting rid of. Make sure you post pictures (if not directions).

Hi Doug,

Thanks for the nice reply. There is potential for a type of lean-to to be added off my rear shed (where my son's basketball net was) but I think I would store my snowmobile in it and use that now empty garage space for more shelving for the Rubbermaid Totes.

As hard as it is to believe I actually got to put my truck in the garage tonight as I pre-loaded it for my trip tomorrow. DW had a few pointed questions about how long I planned to use "her garage" but did not evict me!

We usually have a big garage sale just before we move to a new town (4 towns in 11 years), but I think we are going to settle down where we are now, so there has not been any incentive to reduce our accumulated stuff.

I renovated our last 3 houses, completing then just before I put them up for sale. This practice frustrates my DW as I have been having too much fun lately to do final decorating on our current home as we do not plan on moving.

Garage sales are a real struggle for me, my DW puts an item out for sale and I sneek it back into storage. It is getting to the point that I have to check the garbage before I take it to the curb to see if DW has decided on her own that some of my stuff is trash (kit containers are a good example)!

No point in coming to my garage sale, if I am getting rid of something it is either worn-out or does not do the job it was suppost to.

Later,

Mike

I don't think anyone has mentioned this....

You could build the lean to and store the teenager in that, while keeping your gear room. He gets outside and his own place (sorta), you don't have to move your stuff. *grins*

Yeah, I don't see it working either.

You got me laughing with that one Ironraven! He will be off to university in 3 more years, I miss him just thinking about it.

I have one more hunting trip planned for this year, then Christmas at my parents in Southern Ontario; but when we return I have been told by the DW that I will renovate the basement, no more stalling!

It will be nice when finished to have a closed off place of my own (like my secert clubhouse of 40 years ago) but this room I will have to share with the central vacuum, water heater, furnace, water softener and cat litter box (phew).

Building the room will not take that long, it the clean-up prior that I am dreading.

Mike

I;m not saying freecycle is yahoo, I'm saying they use yahoo's mail servers for their mailing lists therefore they need to be avoided until they move to a decent mail host. My MIL went to freecycle and wanted to sign up for the local mailing list which was a yahoo group. She signed up for a yahoo account and filled in her information and that information was shared with yahoo's marketing partners.
Now I could go on an on with several more incidents that are yahoo related but not freecycle related, like when I bought something from a yahoo store and unchecked the box allowing them to save my credit card information in the yahoo wallet then a few weeks later got several charger for porn sites and a $200 pair of shoes from a company called eastbay, but those are not related to the freecycle mailing list. Yahoo refused to assist even the policeman who too the theft report and refused to delete my yahoo account. But in short we all need to avoid anything that might use any of yahoo's services in any way until they discontinue some of their invasive and unsafe business practices.

When I moved in here I doubled the closet space by using two tiers of wire shelving from Home Depot -- lots more room. Then I added a tier of shelving all around the garage at the ~7' mark -- totally out of the way and it stores a lot of stuff where I can see it without having to look too hard. I like my stuff stored in sight so I don't forget I already have one when I see something neat and think that I ought to get it -- out of sight, out of mind, BTDT.

1. Freecycle.org uses PAIR NETWORKS a company in Pittsburgh, for their mail services.
See for yourself. http://www.robtex.com/dns/freecycle.org.html

2. Yahoo's Terms and Conditions are exceedingly clear on the nature of information sharing. Never agree to something you don't read.

3. As a former operator of a Yahoo! store, a job I did for a LONG time, I can tell you from direct first hand experience about Yahoo Wallet vs. Non-Wallet transactions. When the customer does NOT use Yahoo Wallet, Yahoo passed the credit card data to the Yahoo Store operator. Yahoo stores are akin to a shopping mall, in that Yahoo provides the hosting and storefron software but - and this is a critical but - they DO NOT process the credit cards. It's up to the merchant to work out credit card processing. In most cases, the merchant will engage in the services of an authorized online transaction processing service and merchant bank, but some merchants simply choose to collect credit card numbers without processing them and use their existing terminal to manually type in the numbers. That's exactly what I did when I was selling Magfire fire starters. I'd see that I had a sale, I'd log into the Yahoo Store system, PRINT OUT the order form - which included the credit card number of the buyer, manually type in the CC number, bill the customer and ship the item. I'd sit on the printed order forms for two weeks, and then shred them. Not all merchants are as careful with credit card data.
If you used a Yahoo Store and the merchant using Yahoo Store services didn't secure your CC data, that's not Yahoo!'s fault, it's the fault of the merchant. If you actually had a real police investigation and the police had a reason to think that Yahoo was in any way involved or could provide material information to support a criminal prosecution, Yahoo! would have no choice at all, and would comply.