Hmm, probably the safest means of overland travel in and around Baghdad was the 1974 datsun pickup, with the exhaust pipe barely clearing the road, being held up by a spool of baling wire, with serious dents/rust throughout the vehicle, with smoking exhaust like it needed a quart every hundred miles, with a goat tethered in the bed of the truck, doing about 10 kph below the speed limit down the freeway. No one ever messed with those rigs.

Personally, in a pursuit situation, I prefer the Cannonball run II version. 10 gallons of hi vis grease broadcast behind/to the side of the car by high pressure pumps and nozzles from under the car chassis. After they do a few spins at about 200 rpm, they won't feel much like pursuing I am guessing. Bike tires don't take kindly to zero friction coefficient...

It is also quite discreet, unlike flamethrowers, automatic fire, or a big cloud of Cap spray. Sadly, any innocents following behind might get caught in the mess and end up spinning out as well. Also, it won't do much for you if they get in front.

I can't remember if it was Larry Niven (I think) or Asimov who did a short story about a kidnapper in a car, which ends with "I had the more dangerous weapon" (aka the car)

It's all Mindset - When dealing with a Violent Criminal Actor (VCA) the FASTER you "get off the line" and deal with them, the more likely you are to survive. If you let them control the situation, you ARE hosed.

http://www.defense-training.com/quips/06Nov07.html (second article)

In the top situation - the time to act is when the motorcycles first start to swarm - yes, you MIGHT get shot, but you WILL be dead by the time the pickup gets done with you - "Damm the torpedos, Full Speed ahead" "Ramming speed Gridley" - your 2000 lb car is a very effective anti motorcycle tool - hit a bike that is going 60 mph - and not even THAT hard, you'll be putting the riders leg between your car and the bike - kinda painful to ride with your leg crushed in 6-12 places, even if it does'nt knock the guy over

Fast, non predictable direction changes - take out the bikes BEFORE the the pickup gets involved - if the pickup DOES get involved - assume you are dead already - RAM - do ANYTHING to clear the data point.

NEVER submit - the moment you do, the VCA has the upper hand - the rely on the fact that you will hesitate

Almost forgot - NOT hard to make up a few dozen caltrops

Pehaps a more passive, skunklike defense would be the safest.

Who would want to steal a stinky car or kidnap stinky people?

The Army has been working on a variety of stink bombs to deter attacks and break-up masses of people. When people smell a bad smell, one response is fear.

If motorcyclists are harassing you, a whiff of an unpleasant odor would likely heavily discourage any further antics lest they become stinky too!

A deterrent system could easily be built using windshield washer components.

You could further emphasize their peril by painting the car black with a white stripe down the middle as a warning.

Cheers,

Tom A.

Great post Tom!

Kidnapping might not be a big threat but popular cars are often the target of carjackings. Also there are the smash and grabs. Friend of my wife's sister left her purse on the passenger seat of her minivan and someone smashed the window and grabbed it when she was stopped at a light in the not so good area of town.
I like my extended cab truck with the backwards rear doors because its so easy to flip open the back door and toss my bag under the back seat where it can't be seen.
Always keep your doors and seatbelt on and transmission in gear and empty space in front of ypu so if someone does come up to your window you can get out of there.

I always park facing out, so in a rush I can just throw into drive and go. I've noticed a lot of police do this as well, so I guess I'm not alone.

Hello to all,this is my first post.

In reguards to kidnapping's have any of you read "Two Wheels Through Terror, Diary of a South American Motorcycle Odessey" by Glen Heggstad?

I have never met Mister Heggstad, but have met one of his old martial arts sparring partners, and have it on good authority Heggstad can quite easily handel himself. I mean read the book the guy went to South America on a motorcycle by himself. He had no firearms and was facing dozens of armed men with AK-47s, who just happen to fund their terrorist venturse by kidnapping Americans for ransom. (The only reason(2) I mention this book is it involved a kidnapping, and liked the book.)

I think kiddnaping in the United States happens to two types of people, both having the same motivation, MONEY. Group "A" consists of high profile or weathy individuals, and group "B" drug dealers and organized gang members. The majority of these I have read about are ambush style snatches on the way to a car not from a moving vehicle car. At least as far as I can remember.

So, with that out of the way I will go through hypothetical "what if" responses to armed motorcycleists attempting to stop a vehicle. I know DOGOFWAR said he saw this event being trained for. Was this to train the agressors/kiddnaper, or to train persons performing boduguard work?

I ride a motorcycle every day, and know how easy it is for a motorycycle to be taken out by a four wheeled vehicle from first hand experience.

This scenario would fall under a self-defense situation, and if you are afraid of anyone surrounding you while on the road use your mirrors more and check your blind spots even more just so you can swerve if stuff, lets say, comes flying out of a pickup truck bed and into your path. You/me should not be so off inour own world we do not notice an overloaded truck bed that is not tied down as it passes us while driving. If you are that off in your own world pleas stay off the road, I know I pull off the road when my awarenessof my surroundings starts to fade.

SO, THE POINT OF THE ABOVE PARAGRAPH IS 2 PEOPLE ON A MOTORCYCLE (or 4 motorcycles with 2 riders each, who may or may not be concealing a firearm [not concealed means rifle large enough to make out in the mirror before they get close]) THEORETICALLY DONT "APPEAR OUT OF NOWHEAR".

You/I see someone with a weapon, the reaction must be immediate (i.e. fight or flight.) Nutralize the weapon or find cover. I belive law enforcement calls it "VEHICULAR MAnSLAUTER" use your car as a weapon. Or, use evasive driving tactics as you speed away (this part is the "you gotta learn for yourself kind of thing" )know when flight/finding cover is not working and fight back, hopping for a blind corner you can ambush your attackers with your car/truck. If suspicious persons do pursue you ditch them using any loss of sight to make a direction change. In reality focus on breating it helps reduce the HUGE Adreniline response, allows for more intellectual functions of the brain, i.e. rational thought, as opposed to pure animal insticts. Superhuman strength does not help when cornering at high speed, it helps in hand-to-hand combatand and when saving loved ones.

Lastly,
You can look into bullet resistant up grades for windows. I would reccomend windows for cost effectiveness along with bullet resistant panels for engine compartment. Discovery chanel had a special on a while back about the subject of armoring your vihicle for personal safty, I forget exactly what the title was.
In theory most people will not shoot through a car door to hit a driver they try to shoot through the windows to hit the driver/target, unless a pro assassin is after you(this is off topic so I will not go into being stalked by super-smart assasins). Funny that most gangbangers shoot through rolled down windows during driveby's.

These are just some hypothetical what if responses to the original post. Thank you for leting me ramble.

Hey Joseph13,

Welcome to the fire, newguy. Thanks for the book suggestions, it sounds very interesting.

-Blast

Amen! I drive a 97 Ford Explorer and I never wash it. In Texas it pales next to the bigger and more expensive SUV's. Then again, If someone wants it, they can have it. My car is insured and is replaceable.