Hey everyone!! I have been in charge of Making a troop fAk. We need it to be portable. We usually have doctors with us on every campout (LUCK) and so we can have some more advanced stuff. We have 20+ scouts and a budget of $120 ( to around $150)

-Jace

One question you need to ask is how long will you need the kit for? If you need it for one night, then it can be smaller. If you need it for a week, you'll need more of each item.

If you search this forum for 'first aid kit' and/or 'FAK' you're going to get a ton of information.

Our troop had a few approaches.

On "small" trips (overnighters, day hikes, etc.), the scouts each had their own PSK. The creation of these was part of their training. Our older boys were formed into a high-adventure patrol so there skills and attitude filtered down to the younger boys. Most carried a store bought kit.

For bigger trips, the troop had a large first kit that was in a tackle box-like container. We had a large troop trailer, so carrying it wasn't a problem.

Our troop carries a fairly large commercial first aid kit in our troop trailer. It is kept restocked by one of our assistant Scoutmasters who is a firefighter paramedic. Quite honestly the only thing used from the kit is adhesive bandages of one size or another. We might have also used some antibiotic cream.

Each Scout who is of Second Class is "supposed" to be carrying a personal first aid kit that was put together as one of the second class rank requirements. Some probably actually carry them, but many probably don't. That would be a great inspection item for one of our next campouts.

That is not to say that nasties don't happen. A few years back my son - of all the boys in the pack - broke his collarbone while at a council-wide event event at the summer camp property. That required a ton of elastic bandages to immobilize his arm until the ambulance arrived for transport to the local hospital (a fun night that was).

At this year's summer camp a boy in the next camp site over sliced a good length of skin off the outside of his thumb. I guess it bleed like crazy. Lots of gauze needed while on the way to the very same hospital.

So, the list should include at the very least:
Protective gloves (latex or other)
Eye protection
Adhesive bandages of all sizes, and lots of them
Large gauze pads, for bigger cuts
Adhesive tape
Elastic bandages, and lots of them
Gauze wrap
Triangular bandages
Scissors
GOOD Tweezers
Soap
Antibiotic ointment
CPR barrier
Fever Thermometer
Ice packs
Diarrhea medicine
Antihistamine

I was a lifeguard at summer camp one year and we had contingencies for all sorts of stuff. Make sure one of your leaders coordinates with the people running the camp or event. This helps get the right people to the scene if something happens. For weekend events they use to hand out pamphlets to the unit leaders with the POC for emergencies as well as locations for first aid stations. If this isn't in place it would be a good idea to reccomend starting it.

A nice start might be something like the "Comprehensive" kit from AMK. That's what we currently take with us on troop trips, augmented with some extra stuff. The key thing is to have people properly trained, and to regularly inventory the kit and restock it. I think the retail price for the kit is under $200.
They have a couple smaller kits that may fit your budget better, but, be sure you know what capabilities you're trading off.

Make sure you incorporate current med-forms on the boys and adults on the trip. We usually ask parents if it's ok to keep the most recent summer camp med form on file when we take trips, and nobody has ever said no. I'm sure there's some HIPA law we're getting in trouble with...

Also, it's great that you have a doctor with you on your trips sometimes, but, spending money on at least WFA level training for your other adult leaders is always worthwhile. In addition to whatever money you spend on the FAK, make sure you budget annual restock money for the FAK, it's not a one shot purchase, and recertification training money for CPR and whatever level of First Aid training the leaders need to hold.

I have to agree. Remember that medical school does NOT cover first aid! Even dressings in the ER are usually done by the nurses or ER techs. So, really, make sure your doc knows what to do when he doesn't have a bunch of labs, X-ray, and nurses around. Even an ER doc is out of his normal element when outside the hospital.

As for what you need, buy FORCEPS, not TWEEZERS. Tweezers are for plucking eyebrows, forceps are for saving lives.

OK, really, most of the AMK stuff is OK. I'd add some more gauze rolls, ace wraps, maybe some small burn towels (avoid the cream if someone is truly burned). Also, it might be a good idea to keep the adults up on some sort of first aid course, ie ARC.

And find out which of the scouts are really gung-ho on the first aid stuff - I was, and it's led me to EMS and eventually med school. See if they'll carry some extra items, and know about the troop FAK. That way if something happens to the adults, there's still someone that can help.

People trained in traditional first aid in a wilderness setting can cause problems as well.

Traditional first aid tells you not to give the injured person food or drink. In a wilderness setting this is ridiculous and I've heard many stories of injured people nearly dying of dehydration because the first aid they were given denied them water while they were being carried out of the bush for 16 hours to receive proper medical attention.

Another thing to possibly think of is oxygen, the wonder drug. Probably not for a young scout (altho a serious injury could change that), but possibly for the adult leaders. Some of those guys can have a few years on them, and you never can tell when someone might have the big one. The fast application of O2 can literally be a life saver...

On average about 3 days (A weekend) and 2 nights, but I like to be prepared for almost anything because we are usually about 1-2+ hours to a hospital, sometimes more.

-Jace

Yeah, um that scout is me. (: So thats why I volunteered to do this. I am Cpr, Aed and First aid trained by Red Cross. The doctors we have, I know, have done this stuff a lot. I probably know as much or more about first aid than most of the adult leaders.

"Another thing to possibly think of is oxygen, the wonder drug. Probably not for a young scout (altho a serious injury could change that), but possibly for the adult leaders. Some of those guys can have a few years on them, and you never can tell when someone might have the big one. The fast application of O2 can literally be a life saver..."

where would I get this?
-JAce

Hello,
The Scout camp that I worked at several summers gets their Oxygen from the local welding shop which also supplies medical grade Oxygen. The tanks, regulators, masks and other such they bought from Moore Medical.com Moor Medical. An Aluminum D tank is $71+s&h which I think is what our camp got. You may not need a tank that large in which case you could look at the Portable Life-O-Gen Life-O-Gen. I'm not sure what there official shelf life is but I have heard people complaining that it is only a few years.
I hope this is of help to you.

Zechariah

You got docs. Great there is the place to start.

First they sould know what is useful.

Second they may be able to get you the equipment at a discount through their offices. There is also they can get samples for free from the different company reps that visit.

Then you can use your budget for anything else that is required.

Oxygen I'd try to avoid, personally. The tank is only $70, but the darn regulator probably runs $100+. Technically there are laws about securing it during transport. It's too heavy to carry for long distances. I work at a stadium sometimes, and we've only just gotten O2 to our foot teams this year; they're the C size, and have enough air for maybe 15 minutes. The D tanks probably could run from 20-60 minutes depending on the flow rate. OK, if you're car camping, but forget it for a backpack trip. Lastly, you need a physician to order O2, which shouldn't be a problem.

Something probably better would be a compressor, like you see the old folks that smoke-like-a-chimney carrying at the mall. Pricier too though.

Here are the things that I am going to get off of red flare.

Forceps
neosporin
prep pads
4x4 gauze
tri bandage
ace bandage
burn gel
tape
insect relief
ibprofin
tylonal
electrolyte
bio hazard
imodium
benadryl
sam splint
cold pack

basically all of the meds. How much of each thing do you think i shoud get? My current list already has me spending $60 on all of these things. I think that I am getting too much of some of the things ): Any help helps.

-JAce

Oh yeah, I might see if I can get a prescription for an epi-pen, If so I would keep it in a pelican case in one of the coolers (I got this advice from one of the docs I consulted). I have never seen an epi-pen but do you think that this case would fit one? I think it is 6 inches long?

-Jace

Jace, two questions:

Does your troop require everyone to carry their own FAK. (Not do you, but does everyone else?)

What are they required to carry?

That will determine the quantities you need of the simple stuff.

I'll try to ask my brother if he remembers what he had when he was the medic for his troop.

EDIT: If you epipen is 6" long, it will fit in the Pelican 1030- the dimensions on their website are either internal only or they specify internal and external.

They are supposed to but out of maybe 30 about 3 or 4 do, this includes me, my brother (whom I force to) and MAYBE 2 or 3 other scouts. Btw, Since I plan on buying some of my stuff from Red flare, I am going to take advantage of the sale.

-JAce

Well, I spoke with my brother.

His bag was pretty basic- lots of 2x2s, 4x4s, some 5x9s and trauma dressings, 2 and 4" Kling, cravats, a variety of band aids (all cloth, all latex free), lots of nitriles, two SAMs, a couple of ACEs, a variety of tape, and webbing for splinting. BP cuff, stethoscope, hypothermia thermometer (all three of those were his), tick tweezers and forceps, ice packs, at least one sleeping bag with two mylar survival bags (one as a cover, one as a liner) and some body warmers in the group for any hike in all but the hottest weather. Lots of nitrils, pocket mask. Dental emergency kit, and some very unofficial meds (tylenol, immodium, benedryl, electrolyte solution). There was some stuff he couldn't remember. I remember that it filled the radio pocket of an ALICE pack pretty much completely.

As a disclaimer, his Troop had an attached EMS/Fire Explorer Post with it. There was a lot of training he and his group had that I wouldn't expect to find in a normal Troop.

Everyone had a basic FAK (3 packs of 4x4s, moleskin, band aids, tape, cravat, 4" roller, a pair of gloves, and medical data form) and if it wasn't in their shake down, they could go home. They'd do the same thing if you had bad footware, no rain gear, or none of the basic 10 items. You didn't have to be in uniform, but you did have to be ready.

Our leaders (me and my friends) Are trying to do that. Oh and by the way, im a life scout. But we made a joke after being yelled at my our sm that "we need to implement a PHRASECENSOREDPOSTERSHOULDKNOWBETTER. society" So I'll probly bring this up at the next plc.

No need to be PHRASECENSOREDPOSTERSHOULDKNOWBETTER., just use a meritocracy. "You must have this much of a clue to ride this ride." :P

Of course, you also have to set up a pool for any members of the troop who are really poor. And not just the abandoned gear locker. I donated several times to that Troops' charity locker.

Yeah, I know that they have them (i've seen them) Because they almost all have the requirements but they never bring them. I'll probably bring it up at the next meeting.