Well, you are both right. (Or both wrong.)

Fire is critical if you can't make more heat than you are losing. When you are hypothermic, your body isn't able to keep your body warm any more on it's own. You get wet, with wind or it is just cold, this can happen pretty easily.

If you are just cold, then yes, even just getting insulation under you and a windbreak up can do as much as a fire can.

Well the Army did try to come up with the DIVAD/Sgt. York, but it had so many problems that I believe it was abandoned. Chapparal is a typically thorny, dense mixture of brush that covers much of Southern California from about 0 - 6000' elevation. It's the stuff that figured prominently in our recent fires. Not exactly the maples of Vermont, but they'll have to do.


You EDC all that? I was sort of thinking of items normally carried on one's person, but if you've got all that, then you're pretty well set with respect to shelter in Southern California this time of year unless you're up pretty high, and I agree with you -- I too would climb in my bag/heatsheet first and then do any electronic signalling second. If on the other hand, one only had more common items and one had to make or find shelter, then I'd probably do the quick electronic signalling and then see about some shelter. That's sort of what I was thinking as I prioitized my list.


Well, and watch out for plants with leaves in groups of three.

One last thought: out here keep the matches in your kit unless it's pretty near dead calm. One of the big conflagrations here was caused by someone sleeping out who lit a fire for warmth but let it get out of control. Toasting the whole region just might not be the best survival move.

In dry climates, I always practice strong fire discipline- yes, a forest fire gets attention, but it isn't a very effective signal when taken in balance. :P

And yes, I do carry all of that in my never go past the mailbox without it bag- this listing is a little out of date, but close enough. And that doesn't even include my keychain. And that is just my around town EDC. If I'm off the black top, there are a few more things on me (at a minimum a couple more contractor bags, a 20oz water bottle , and my homebuilt PSK and PMK) but I do leave the current sniffer and few other tools in the car. *laughs* I can't tell you how to react as a normal person. If I didn't have my toys with me, I'd look to build a debris shelter if I had time or just curl up under a bush. So long as I don't get rained on and dressed properly, I'm okish.


And as a side note that is totally off topic, there is no reason why the Hum-RAM project that the Marines looked at couldn't be implimented. A Hummer with a roof rack for four AIM-120s, and you use the AMRAAM's own radar as your search unit when you attach it to external power. Worked fine in the one crude prototype that was cobbled together, but there was never any funds made available to do serious work. Beats the various Stinger-armed units like a drum in terms of range and effectiveness. Heck, you could probably modify the Avenger or Linebacker to carry a pair of AMRAAMs, or even a dozen of them on a modified MRLS chassis. But there has never been funding, and now there is a hole big enough to eat an armour regiment. That is what I mean by there has never been significant interest in replacing the Chaparrel- since the DIVAD failure, apparently we will never fight someone when we don't have total air dominance, and even then we've got the theater umbrella of Patriot. *rolls eyes* Assumption is the mother of all....

I agree with Ironraven that you are both right, with qualification.

You would have to run through scenarios based on expectable conditions in order to determine which is the priority. Sometimes when it is pouring rain and windy, even though I need the external heat source, it may be a greater imperative to get in out of the nasty for a bit first. If you can't shelter the fire, you're not going to have much luck getting it going, and that initial starting phase is the most sensitive to ambient conditions.

Also, it may be that fire making materials are scarce, so you risk prolonged exposure just trying to gather enough fuel to make it worthwhile. A snow shelter might be your only recluse from the storm, and any fire at that point would be pointless.

I've had it cut both ways, and so you need to be able to evaluate and adapt your plan accordingly.

I am assuming that the wilderness survival situation is not one that was sought out, and thus getting back to civilization alive is ultimately desired.

Generally speaking, stay calm, and:

1. Immediate Life-saving First Aid
1A. Restore/Maintain ABC (airway, breathing, circulation)'s
1B. Stop Bleeding
1C. Treat For Shock
1D. Regulate Body Temperature

Regulating body temperature implies many things, such as shelter, fire, staying dry, out of the wind, etc. Simply put, exposure kills faster than thirst.

Treating infection can wait, as can treating pain, although treating for pain can make it easier to keep a wound from bleeding again, as a patient in pain has a tendency to move about, and stopping bleeding involves direct pressure and immobilization of the wounded area.

2. Rescue Signals

3. Immediate Subsistence Needs
3A. Water
3B. Food

Thirst kills faster than hunger.

2 and 3 are interchangeable, as opportunities to attract attention come and go, but opportunities must not be wasted, so rescue is given a higher priority.

Good input. Thanks for breaking down the Life Saving First Aid section. I might slightly change it to:

1. Immediate Life-saving First Aid
1A. Restore/Maintain ABC (airway, breathing, circulation)'s
1B. Stop Bleeding
1C. Treat For Shock

2. Regulate body temperature (except for issues in category #1, above)

3. Rescue Signals

4. Subsistence Needs
4A. Water
4B. Food

The 1A, B, and C above are typically for trauma or bodily failure (e.g. heart attack). For hypothermia, anaphlyactic shock (e.g. bee sting), drowning, and other immediate life threatening issues, the "A, B, C's" will be a little different, but you've definitely got the right idea.

I really like the "regulate body teperature" concept. It applies to all conditions.
Examples
Hot weather: regulate body temp means shade or other techniques to deal with heat and solar exposure
Mild weather: may mean do nothing more than wear the clothes on your back to regulate heat/cold.
Wet weather: stay dry
Cold weather: Stay warm

Thanks for the concept.

Leave a photocopy of your hiking boot's sole and the sole of any other footwear you carry... the folks looking for you will want your shoe size and sole(thanks bg) pattern.

Do a lot more research on the subject of your question.

I'm not leaving a copy of my soul pattern anywhere. Could be used for voodoo

Too late. They keep them for all veteran ETS members, in the data back up. :P

A while back I made myself this survival order of importance list:

1. Prevention (trip plan, geared right, planning ahead, avoiding risks)
2. Health (psychological stress, traumatic and environmental injuries)
3. Personal protection (clothing, shelter, insects, fire)
4. Signaling (fire, whistle, mirror)
5. Sustenance (water and maybe food)
6. Location & travel (using a map, compass, GPS)

I see it as kind of a higher-level view of priorities relative to Jim's list. Jim's is more of a to-do list, which is important when there are, well, to-do's to do.

Ken K.