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#113103 - 11/20/07 08:41 PM Re: musings on firearms and changing opinions [Re: Ors]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
Absolutely! We have 300,000+ troops doing that right now.
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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#113116 - 11/20/07 11:34 PM Re: musings on firearms and changing opinions [Re: NightHiker]
raydarkhorse Offline
Addict

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 510
Loc: on the road 10-11 months out o...
Originally Posted By: NightHiker
Originally Posted By: Ors
Do you think there can be a balance between caring and compassion, and the ability to use deadly force when necessary?


Absolutely. I'm a very compassionate individual but I have had to use deadly force - ask any military medic whose been in combat, most of us would much rather save lives but there are times when shooting another human being is the only way to save the lives of others.

Same way for police they go between risking their life in hopes of saving alife and somrtime that means takeing a life. I hope to never again have to make the desicion to hurt or take another's life, but don't mistake my mild manner and kindness as weakness.
_________________________
Depend on yourself, help those who are not able, and teach those that are.

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#113119 - 11/21/07 12:36 AM Re: musings on firearms and changing opinions [Re: raydarkhorse]
bws48 Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/18/07
Posts: 831
Loc: Anne Arundel County, Maryland
Originally Posted By: raydarkhorse
Originally Posted By: NightHiker
Originally Posted By: Ors
Do you think there can be a balance between caring and compassion, and the ability to use deadly force when necessary?


Absolutely. I'm a very compassionate individual but I have had to use deadly force - ask any military medic whose been in combat, most of us would much rather save lives but there are times when shooting another human being is the only way to save the lives of others.

Same way for police they go between risking their life in hopes of saving alife and somrtime that means takeing a life. I hope to never again have to make the desicion to hurt or take another's life, but don't mistake my mild manner and kindness as weakness.


100'% agree. When I became an MP, I had to decide if I would use deadly force. The training I received helped, but I came up with the notion that if I had to use deadly force to protect an innocent or helpless person, I would, and logically, if necessary to stop someone who had already demonstrated than they would hurt that innocent person. I can understand people who would rather sacrifice their own lives rather than take another life-- their choice -- but cannot understand someone who, having the ability to prevent it, lets someone take another person's life by failing to act. IMHO, there is such a thing as morality and a moral duty to act. My version of the commandment is "thou shall not murder" not "thou shall not kill." There's a difference.
_________________________
"Better is the enemy of good enough."

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#113140 - 11/21/07 01:58 AM Re: musings on firearms and changing opinions [Re: bws48]
raydarkhorse Offline
Addict

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 510
Loc: on the road 10-11 months out o...
Originally Posted By: bws48
Originally Posted By: raydarkhorse
Originally Posted By: NightHiker
Originally Posted By: Ors
Do you think there can be a balance between caring and compassion, and the ability to use deadly force when necessary?


Absolutely. I'm a very compassionate individual but I have had to use deadly force - ask any military medic whose been in combat, most of us would much rather save lives but there are times when shooting another human being is the only way to save the lives of others.

Same way for police they go between risking their life in hopes of saving alife and somrtime that means takeing a life. I hope to never again have to make the desicion to hurt or take another's life, but don't mistake my mild manner and kindness as weakness.


100'% agree. When I became an MP, I had to decide if I would use deadly force. The training I received helped, but I came up with the notion that if I had to use deadly force to protect an innocent or helpless person, I would, and logically, if necessary to stop someone who had already demonstrated than they would hurt that innocent person. I can understand people who would rather sacrifice their own lives rather than take another life-- their choice -- but cannot understand someone who, having the ability to prevent it, lets someone take another person's life by failing to act. IMHO, there is such a thing as morality and a moral duty to act. My version of the commandment is "thou shall not murder" not "thou shall not kill." There's a difference.


thats my take on that commandment also I just hope it's Gods too or I'm in a heap of trouble.
_________________________
Depend on yourself, help those who are not able, and teach those that are.

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#113145 - 11/21/07 02:10 AM Re: musings on firearms and changing opinions [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
ironraven Offline
Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
No, no he wasn't.
_________________________
-IronRaven

When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

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#113146 - 11/21/07 02:13 AM Re: musings on firearms and changing opinions [Re: Ors]
ironraven Offline
Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
I think that is why one summer, my grandfather taught me basic first aid and started teaching me herbal plants and wilderness survival techniques.

The next summer, he started me on shooting and hand to hand. He wanted me to understand that healing was as great a power as harming, and both were in the same set of hands and the same mind.
_________________________
-IronRaven

When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

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#113151 - 11/21/07 03:03 AM Re: musings on firearms and changing opinions [Re: Ors]
DOGSOFWAR Offline
Stranger

Registered: 10/31/07
Posts: 12
This is my take on any weapon, especially a lethal one.
Weapons were primary invented to kill things. If it wasn't intended to bring down a beast for meat, then it was for killing a foe,i.e. a man.
Weapons are tools, like any other tool, they all have a purpose and a intended use. Some require more skills than others to use.

Fire arms are tools. They are a mechanical tool that controls an explosive blast, that is directed at an intended target.It's sole purpose is to kill. A badly directed shot maims,which is not the intended outcome, because the targeted individual survived to fight another day.The concept isn't hard to grap here,all Firearms sole purpose is to kill.
Shooting at tin cans, paper targets,flying clay disc's etc. is peacetime idle hours pursuits intended to keep your aiming eye sharp, and your reflexs quick. It is keeping your edge ready to use when you actually have to use your weapon for it's real purpose....and that is to kill.

If you aim any firearm at any foe, your message is: cease and desist...or die! In warfare it means; kill or be killed.

A loaded firearm aimed at your foe is not a friendly gesture.
It basically means that negotiations have failed or are non existant. It means that the user is deadly serious, don't test his will not to use it. It may be the last thing you do.

Once you pull the trigger, all bets are off and the game is on,
albeit a deadly one.

There can be no warm fuzzy feelings and thoughts of "what if!"
Once the deed is done, you live with it!

Too many people over think and analyze the out come, or how powerful they think they are at the given moment of no return.

This is horsecrap...
A firearm does not make you powerful, or that you hold any special power of life or death to be lauded over someone. If you actually think this way, you are a moron.
Any buttwipe can grab a gun and shoot someone with it. It doesn't make him powerful, or bad, or Godlike.

This why robbers are low life scumbags...they think the gun makes them one bad motherdrummer. "Gimme your cash, or I'll kill ya!" All gun using robbers should be excecuted by firing squad!Give them a taste of their own anal squeezings...

Robbery! There is no honor, no justification. It is an act of pure evil intended to create fear, and threaten someones life for monetary gain.
The victim was usually a random pick, based on the appearance of helplessness. ( weakness, defenseless )

The theive will not attack an individual if they know they are armed...because all gun yielding robbers are nutless cowards!

People who advocate the disarming of honest law abiding gun owners are milquetoast pussies who think the world should be
all kisses and hugs and lets play nice under the rainbow of love and happiness, with Bambi, Thumper, and Butterflies in the yard.

What a load of Bullsquat...

The world does not operate that why, and it never will!


If there were no fire arms in the world, no bows and arrows, no spears, no clubs, man would smash his opponents head with a rock!

No if's and but's about it!

As long as man has an attitiude problem with his foe's, he will
defend himself with a lethal weapon of choice. The fire arm seems to be weapon of choice around the world. It is acurate, deadly, and easy to use. Also quicker than lightning from a distance...no muss, no fuss.

To let any namby-pamby politican tell you, that the 2nd ammendment isn't about private ownership of firearms, is a pinko
jerk whose testicles probably haven't dropped yet!

One such nitwit campaigning right now comes to mind...can't name names,but he's Oprah's golden boy...this posturing moron actually says:

"I don't believe we need to be agressive with our enemies, I would sit down and talk with them and come to agreements".
What a dickless twit!

But, I digress....

Right now we the people have a dicision to make, and that is, are we going to defend our right to own and bear arms? Or, are we going to let right wing neo con's buffalo the high courts into taking that right away for good? They are trying to do so folks..
The extra thick layers of legalese manure spreading based on "national security" threats and or perceptions, are what is being used to usurp your and my freeedoms and constitutional rights.
You normally use all your ordinary tools as they are intended, for the purposes in which they are designed for don't you?
Yet, if you take a legal to own and operate firearm, and blow away some malcontents hide to kingdom come, this then is something that has to be taken away?
Hell, if I wanted too, I could just slam a claw hammer into the top of someone's head and achieve the same results as a gun...

Let's regulate, license, all claw hammers...

I am tired of all the wussyness. Political correctness is mind control, and the "Thought Police" play book.

Right now we got a cess pool full of Politico's and Pandering Wusses who what you and me to swallow the swill they are regurgatating.

I personally feel that I'd like to shove all their lying vebage
up their sphincter zones...

P.C. crap....I never bought into it. I never will.
Call a spade a spade, and whatever else you want to call it or someone else.

Oh!, did I hurt your feelings?...too damn bad!

People kill people regularly, and if you too intend to kill one of them, and the gun is the tool you chose to use, that was your choice.
Live with the outcome of your decision. You pulled the trigger.
It doesn't make you powerful. You aren't God. You play, you pay.
Don't want any guns around?
Then get ready to smash the enemies head with a rock...
and buy a rubber suit!

Stop playing a stupid game about it all!

There is a storm coming...and it will involve making all privately owned firearms illegal. Once we are disarmed, get ready for the gulags...

Stop thinking it can't ever happen here...it can, it has, it will again...get ready to defend your rights.

War Dog out







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#113324 - 11/23/07 02:26 PM Re: musings on firearms and changing opinions [Re: DOGSOFWAR]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
Hopefully the Supreme Court (SCOTUS) will rule correctly on DC vs Heller which will be heard in March 2008 and change the 2nd Amendment dynamic in a good way.

Quote:
. . . Any buttwipe can grab a gun and shoot someone with it. . .
This sounds like someone I knew in grad school, VN era SEAL who knew about killing -- getting out with them never knowing you were there was the hard part.

Defending one's life or the lives of other innocents is why I keep firearms. Yes, I practice and play what-if scenarios; but I don't believe that all will be good if I do survive a deadly force encounter -- better than the alternative, but not good.
_________________________
Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
Okay, what’s your point??

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