Like a lot of folks here, I’m working on my own versions of mini-kits, tobacco tin size and larger. I’ve gotten a lot of good ideas from this site and this forum.<br><br>Looking at Doug’s “Mini” kit, one thing that I wasn’t crazy about was the pencil. I had no idea where to get one like it (golf shop?), it seemed unnecessarily bulky (well, compared to the size of the container, anyway), and I’m not crazy about the idea of having to use one of the craft knife blades, with no handle, to sharpen it before writing.<br><br>Some time ago I simplified my life a bit by buying a silver pen designed to live in a wallet fold; I bought mine from the Herrington catalog, but here’s a good picture:<br><br>http://www.styluscentral.com/walletpen.html<br><br>There’s no real mechanism, it’s just telescoping silver tubes with a clip, but it does keep me from wondering whether I should take a pen with me on the weekends, and for that alone it’s been worth it.<br><br>With luck, this might make storing a writing implement in the kit redundant, but you never know.<br><br>When I ordered it, I also ordered a pack of three refills. It turned out that the pen came with a spare anyway, so I have four. The literature calls them “a stock size refill available from your local stationer”. These things are 2 and 5/8 inches long, and perhaps a tenth of an inch in diameter.<br><br>Perhaps surprisingly, I don’t find it uncomfortable to write (briefly) with the refill alone, but if you do, you could increase the diameter for comfort by wrapping it with something useful- thread, fishing line, or tape. Perhaps the tip could be protected with a bit of the Teflon tubing- not sure.<br><br>I suppose it’s possible that a pencil might write under some conditions where the pen won’t, but then I find that a pen has more contrast and is easier to read under more conditions. Eraseability is not a factor, since the pencil doesn’t have one either. All in all, this seems like a satisfactory compromise that frees up a little space, where space is very precious.<br><br><br><br>

I use Space Pen refills in my kits (just the refill).<br><br>

I think the pencil was chosen because you could write on a peice of granite rock or bark or something... its a lil harder to do that with a pen. just take a normal pencil brake most of it off and sharpen both ends so its rather small but not too small. u can shave peices of it off to make it smaller or shave some to make tinder... you never know.<br><br>

I get my pencils from the Putt-Putt courses. They are already sharpened and "free" when you play a round. I usually pick up a few of the dropped pencils along the course at the same time so bring home a couple. Have one in every kit. For larger kits, they make a great place to wrap some duct tape around.<br><br>

The little stubby pencils are easy to find. I've seen them in fast food places (Whataburger, Kentucky Fried Chicken come to mind), among others, to fill in cards. I had to pad the point anyway, so after using a piece of tubing for a while, I stuck a small sharpener on it and held it on with masking tape. It adds a little bulk, but still fits nicely in the kit, and will write on the Nalgene and Rite-in-Rain paper. And the price was right.<br><br>

This wallet pen idea is great. You put something useful in a handy unused space in your wallet (the fold) and it is always with you and it is not jumbling around in your front pocket. It doesn't even increase the bulk of the wallet. Now that's a good idea.<br><br>Even better, a small magnesium firestarter like the Military Match from Done Right Manufacturing like Doug carries on a key ring would also fit in that space. Now you have a firestarter on hand even when you don't have your kit with you.<br><br>I know one of you guys posted about carrying a lighter flint in your wallet, but this seems like a more robust solution. Seal it in some shrink tubing and add a pocket clip from a mechanical pencil and clip it to your wallet.<br><br>

>>This wallet pen idea is great. You put something useful in a handy unused space in your wallet (the fold) and it is always with you and it is not jumbling around in your front pocket. It doesn't even increase the bulk of the wallet. Now that's a good idea.<<<br><br>It is, I wish the execution were a little better. As I said, it's just two telescoping tubes (hard to describe), no mechanism. That's not a big problem, but when you show it to someone, they invariably pull the whole thing apart trying to "retract" it. It's also a fairly expensive solution, in Sterling silver. Still, if I lost it, I'd immediately order another.<br><br>>>Even better, a small magnesium firestarter like the Military Match from Done Right Manufacturing like Doug carries on a key ring would also fit in that space. Now you have a firestarter on hand even when you don't have your kit with you.<<<br><br>As I mentioned in another thread, I carry a P38 can opener in my wallet, and it makes an excellent striker, aside from opening cans.<br><br>I would think that model would be a little thick in most wallets. We know that the ferro-cerium (sp?) rods come as thin as one eighth inch (as in the Permanent Match, yet another thread), and there was a discussion in another forum where someone claimed to have replaced the blade in the Victorinox Swiss Army knife little screwdriver, the one that screws into the corkscrew, with a rod this thin. I find that sort of interesting- now you've got a knife and fire, the first two items on my list, in one package.<br><br><br>

The Military Match is a 1/4" megnesium rod 2-1/2" long with a 1/8" artifical flint rod bonded along side it. I tested something of equal size in my wallet and it fit into the cavity at the fold very nicely without adding bulk. <br><br>I like the fact that it isn't just the flint, but includes the good magnesium tinder. Without the magnesium, you would have to improvise spark-catching tinder which would take precious time, especially in wet weather.<br><br>The pen would probably be far more useful on a daily basis, but the fire could be a life saver.<br><br>I agree, the flint with SAK idea is pretty good. Makes you wonder why SAK doesn't manufacture it that way. They have every other conceivable "tool" including some pretty questionable ones such as the orange peeler.<br><br>

I actually wrote an e-mail to Victorinox a couple of years ago, suggesting that they make a flint strip available as a replacement for the toothpick (which most people lose, and which IMO is useless). They wrote back saying that several other people had suggested this (so we're not alone) and they had considered it but didn't think it was commercially viable, or some such.<br><br>So yes, it's been suggested, and yes, they've considered it, but no, they're not going to do it. :-(<br><br>Does anyone have any idea where I could get a flint rod that would fit in the toothpick slot of a SAK anyway? Or would it be too brittle to be functional? (The toothpick is a metal rod, about 3/32" in diameter and a bit over 2" long.)<br><br>

>>So yes, it's been suggested, and yes, they've considered it, but no, they're not going to do it. :-( <<<br><br>Sounds like the SOS option on the Photon lights... :-(<br><br>You might be interested in this bit of conversation I copied from a survival kit discussion on : http://pub14.ezboard.com/fwildernesssurv...topicID=6.topic<br>___________________<br>"For me it's my SAK Huntsman on a neck sheath from Normark. He made one for everyone who went on the Hood's June trip. I epoxied a button compass on mine. (Remove the knife and take your bearing.) I also modified my corkscrew to accept a 1/8" sparking rod and a spiral handle from one of SAK's 'glasses screw drivers'. This is hanging around my neck from 550 cord, though I should have a break away section so that I don't strangle myself....."<br>_____________<br><br>The toothpicks are actually pretty flat; this might be a better solution. Yes, I would be concerned about the brittleness of a small-diamter ferrocerium rod, even the big ones sometimes break. You could cut a groove into the handle scales with a riffler or Dremel, and glue the rod into the handle for a backing, but then you'd need a striker other than your knife blades.. not good.<br><br>All of my Victorinox knives seem to have too much magnetic attraction for the compass trick, if I'm reading it right (maybe he epoxied the compass to the neck sheath?)- and the smallest half-inch compass I have seems too thick, even if you drilled the handle scale and inlet it.<br><br>There's certainly a temptation to combine the big three- knife, fire and compass- but it's worth noting that the commercial attempts to combine even two tend to be lousy.<br><br><br>

Another source for a stubby pencil is a dive shop. Divers use them attached to a writing slate for underwater commo. For those of you with no golf courses, dive shops, or other sources could simply cut down a standard pencil<br>My concern about a pen is that the ink can harden and the pen not work when needed.<br><br><br>Jeffery S. Anderson, M.D.<br><br>

Years ago, I received a playing card set in a Christmas grab bag gift exchange. It was a commemorative old-fashined tin with two decks of playing cards, a small pad of paper to keep score, and short, very thin pencil. The total diameter of the pencils was not much more than twice that of the lead... maybe an eigth of an inch or less. Much smaller than the golf course stubbies, which are a normal pencil diameter, just shorter.<br><br>Now... If I only knew where that pencil went off to or where to find new ones... :-)<br><br><br><br>Willie Vannerson<br>McHenry, IL

How did you modify the cork screw and the eye glass screwdriver to fit a 1/8 in. flint rod? I work in a machine shop so as a project I took my SAK (SWISSCHAMP)<br>in and went to work. I milled a pocket for a small (1/2 in. x 1/4 in. deep) compass I found on a Dakota watch. I also milled a piece of steel to fit in the obsolete "toothpick" slot. I was interested in your flint rod solution. I found the compass worked well on one side of the knife but not the other.<br><br>"Audaces Fortuna Iuvat"

>>How did you modify the cork screw and the eye glass screwdriver... <<<br><br>Sorry for the misunderstanding, but I didn’t.<br><br>You’ll note that the sentences you’re referring to in that message are in quotes, and the previous line says:<br><br>“You might be interested in this bit of conversation I copied from a survival kit discussion on : http://pub14.ezboard.com/fwildernesssurvivalmodernsurvivaltechniquesquestionsandanswers.showMessage?topicID=6.topic”<br><br>by which I was trying to make it clear that those sentences were copied from a discussion on that web page- you can find the message there if it helps. I'm afraid I don't have any information other than what's there.<br><br><br>

I found this at http://www.spacepen.com/usa/catalog/1005/index.htm

I remembered this thread, so I thought I'd post it.
Stay safe,
J.T.

<GASP> The SAK toothpick . . ."useless"?

For some of us over 40 whose teeth may have started to wander, the toothpick feature is one of the most useful features on the SAK. In fact, for EDC I have a CRKT "K.I.S.S." for blade purposes, and a Victorinox Classic primarily for the toothpick feature (and occasional scissors use.) And if you lose the toothpick, you can always replace it from a retired SAK (everybody has one or two in the drawer, right?), or buy a new one on the Victorinox site.

Aardwolfe--

Are you sure you're looking at a toothpick? Your description (“The toothpick is a metal rod, about 3/32" in diameter and a bit over 2" long.") sounds more like the pen from my SwissChamp, which is basically half of a standard refill with a grey tip, as on the tweezers, and fits in a recess under the scale, as does the toothpick & tweezers. The 'picks on ALL my SAKs that have them (mostly Victorinox, but there's a couple of Wengers that were given to me) are flat, tapered to a point, ivory colored, and plastic.

I’ve used them, infrequently, but with great success—most memorably, to remove a fish bone wedged tightly between two teeth while dining at a fancy restaurant. That bordered on painful, but the Classic saved the day (much preferable to the 4” Puma Game Warder I carried at the time:) )

David

PresumedLost--
Re: bonding a small-diameter ferrocerium rod to a scale: “then you'd need a striker other than your knife blades.. not good”

Have you tried using the tweezers as a striker? Got the idea from an early issue of Tactical Knives (same article that persuaded me to put lanyards on my larger SAKs.)

I've also heard that anything hard--such as a piece of glass-- can make ferrocerrium spark, but haven't verified it. I'll see what I can come up with after lunch, when I get mine out of the truck.

David

I tried to view the message on the other forum, but got a 404 error.

However, as I read PL's quote, I understood it to mean that the Victorinox glasses screwdriver was modified to accept a flint rod.

The Vic glasses screwdriver is a tiny (about 1-1/4" long) slotted screwdriver with a grey handle grooved in a spiral to match the corkscrew on their knives. It twists into the corkscrew, is held in place by the scale when closed, and the blade of the screwdriver is protected by the rest of the corkscrew. It comes with the SwissChamp, & maybe a couple of other models, and can be added to any one with a corkscrew. Wearing glasses myself, I have one in all the SAKs that can take them. It may be seen at www.victorinox.com. Go to the products/pocketknives page, and look at the SwissChamp or TimeKeeper models.

Removing the shaft of the screwdriver & replacing it with a flint is a possibility, and I took it as what was meant.

David

Toothpicks are weapons !!! Self inflicted damage therefrom fills the offices of periodontists.

Hi David,
Oops! There's an extra period at the end of, but still inside, your URL tag. My browser tries to find http://www.victorinox.com[color:"red"].[/color]/ instead of http://www.victorinox.com/[color:"red"].[/color]
Stay safe,
J.T.

Ooops, indeed! Sorry about that. The period was simply to end the sentence, and not meant to be part of the URL. I wrote the text in a word processor, & cut & pasted it into the posting page. Somewhere in the translation, the two were conjoined, causing an error. I should have tested the link after posting!

I've corrected it now. Thanks, Jet, for letting me know.

David

The victorinox pen does it for me. It's always by my side, reliable and it amazes people. If you do carry your SAK with a pen included I cant see what else you'd want.

Reinhardt - back from being gone <img src="images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />

long time no see reinhardt woets !

the vic pen is good indead, but on models where you only got the small metal revil like looking pen, it's a bit less comfortable.

I agree that the plastic SAK toothpick is one of those "essential" EDC items. If my Micra had a slot for one, (as well as a cross-cut file instead of a pebble-texture) it would truly be the perfect EDC tool.

I’ve made thin pencils for my kits by putting regular pencils in a drill and using sandpaper to mill them down. Cut them to size, apply a couple coats of enamel, and your done. Jester

good to see you PC2K, 'bout being away its a long story.

I use half of a 'waterproof' pencil that I got from the British Geological Survey. "Waterproof?" I hear you say...All that means is that its made from recycled paper cups so there's no wood to swell if it gets wet. Nevertheless they are excellent pencils(and environmentally friendly - bonus)

Actually, a SAK toothpick, or other thin plastic pokey thing, would be a useful item and would not be an issue with metal detectors.

Since there is a Wallet Pen, I wonder if there's a Wallet Toothpick?

David,

"Have you tried using the tweezers as a striker? Got the idea from an early issue of Tactical Knives"

I have not tried that. I would imagine it might work, but be pretty frustrating- using the sides of the tweezers is going to be awkward since they're so thin and flexible, and using the ends may tend to ruin them for their normal use, eventually... and there's the fact that they seem to get lost a lot. Seems like it would be frustrating to have much better tools right in your hand that you can't use for this..

I do know that a P-38 can opener works very well as a striker, and that's why I don't put a separate one in my PSKs. Given the way that ferrocerium works (as opposed to real flint), I'm sure that glass or anything hard and reasonably sharp will work fine.

Actually you can fit all models of the victorinox SAK 91mm models with the corkscrew e.g. camper, climber, can be fitted with the scale which will hold the pen, toothpick and the steel pin.

I will try a mod to my climber to cut a groove and glue a flint to it. I will use the small screwdriver as a striker and see how that goes.