Due to certain recent posts, I've been thinking about what I would do and how it might go.

My existing BO plans are for very short-term local incidents: toxic spills and fires are the two main things that come to mind. I put the basics into the truck which includes some camping gear, and the animals, and I'm gone. If a wildfire is threatening but not imminent, I'll cram in some more.

Long-term BO is my dead last option. It means that I have NO OTHER OPTIONS. Where I am now would be unliveable for the foreseeable future.

But if I did, here's how I would see it happening:

Since it would be a widespread situation, I would contact as many friends as I could (conditions allowing) and ask if they wanted to join a convoy/caravan for mutual supply and support. Most of them are into preparedness. I would hope someone had a viable privately-owned destination that could accept all of us, like a farm or ranch, within our gasoline allowance (the real limiting factor).

Tighten the camper shell onto the truck. Attach the car dolly to the hitch. Run the little old Cavalier onto the car dolly if I had the forethought to fill the tank.

Toss the collapsed dog crates into the truck, add the plastic crates with the cats, and the one with the four hens. The dogs would go in the cab last.

The tent and other camping gear, stoves, fuels, bedding, tarps.

My books and info on preparedness how-to, plant ID, etc. All the food and water I could fit. All the animal food I had.

"Important documents" that would probably have the value of toilet paper. And, speaking of which, it's probably too late to stock up on that. Okay, phone books.

Then we all meet, bawling our heads off, and start rolling down the road to some kind of destination.

We get to our destination (with luck), scared, hungry, tired and out of sorts because we were too scared to stop anywhere. I hope it has some kind of hand-dug well or spring. But that would probably be too much to hope for. But without some water source, we're dead.

We set up the tents, probably close together. Draw straws for guard duty. Tether the dogs so they don't run off chasing porcupines or raccoons.

The tenseness would get to everyone. If there were any children, they would probably be either playing loudly enough to get on everyone's nerves, disappearing and driving their mothers crazy; the younger ones would be whining and crying. The teenagers would be pouting when their battery-powered games went dead, and be wanting to use the drinking water for washing their hair every day.

Most of the people would probably be eating more than necessary because they're used to it. And that would make the ones who are trying to conserve food angry and uneasy.

If there were any 'neighbors', they would probably start looking like the cast from 'Deliverance'. Probably even more people would have come into the area, and any natural foods would grow scarce. Instead of just cutting the tops of perennials, they would probably have just been pulled up and the inedible parts tossed aside.

Everyone would probably donate their books to the 'library', and try to find ways to contribute to the group. Tools would probably be duplicated or had been forgotten. Makeshift would be the game of the day. After a while, we would have read all the novels, but due to the present circumstances and suspect future, they would seem far, far away.

We would be running out of everything. Everyone would be tired, guards might be getting more nervous. There could be altercations between any of the different groups in the area for any number of reasons.

People with health problems could die. Dealing with death directly is going to be really difficult for people from a greatly sanitized America.

Illness could come in many forms, imported or existing and passed around. Dysentery would be a real problem. No IV fluids, no medications strong enough to do the job.

Complaining would increase. People who were friends would be breaking off into smaller groups. Some might leave. Arguments would break out if a group that was leaving wanted their original belongings back, that had been donated for general use.

If winter had been coming, there's usually no chance for a garden in many areas of the U.S., even if anyone remembered to bring seed. And if you did manage to grow some food, could you guard it well enough from your hungry or starving neighbors?

Has the water supply been compromised? Has carelessness and ignorance caused it to become contaminated? What do you do now?

All the propane, charcoal briquettes and alcohol has long since been used up. We have to range farther and farther to find firewood, and the farther we go, the more dangerous it becomes, as we would probably be venturing into strangers' territory.

Are any radios still working? Is there news of any kind? Could things have somehow improved and we don't know it? Should we try to go somewhere else?

But where to go? Is there any gasoline left? Can't take much on foot, esp if you have smaller children. What about home? Is it possible to go back? Again, how to get there? Is there fuel somewhere nearby that may have been overlooked? What if you could only make it halfway to somewhere else, what do you do then?

All I would really foresee is eventual death, from one cause or another.

We could have done that at home.

Sue

You need some inspiration. How about the Nenets tribal herders of Siberia in Russia.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6wuh5iWSQE

Neanderthals knew more about basic survival than most of us ever will.

There are small tribal groups in the world that could be the last peoples on earth. They might not know, nor even care.

Sue

While I think bug out plans are good for short term events, hazmat spills, floods, fires, etc., in the long term, you are right. I'm much more comfortable bugging in. I'm always amused by examples of kits that enable people to absolutely drop what they are doing and get outta Dodge no matter what or when.

NEWSFLASH -- We're not all single! -- NEWSFLASH

The only place I'm bugging to is my kids' school to pick them up! Then we're going home, or driving a few (dozen, hundred?) miles to a motel if absolutely necessary. If it's a truly large catastrophe, I'm only going as far as I have gas in my tank, the stations on the way won't have any power.

Some of us have *responsibilities* to care for others. What about people with elderly parents in a nursing home? Just say the hell with them?

Sometimes the selfish I'll-survive-at-all-costs attitudes just disgust me, striking me as immature and unrealistic. There's a reason why the loner mountain men type back in the early 1800's usually didn't make it past their mid-30's.

Probably the best solution is to learn from the LDS church, keep your basement nicely stocked, and come Spring, if the situation doesn't improve, head for farming county and hope you have nice relatives...

Cody Lundin's new book deals with this in a lot of detail, and is a very good read.

I see you are looking at a glass half empty. The single biggest thing that was missing from your comments was (IMHO): LEADERSHIP. Without strong, positive leadership, the group will eventually splinter into different factions with infighting, in various degrees of seriousness.

I also believe that bugging out is a very last resort and would be undertaken when the home or neighborhood 20 is no longer a tenable position. "Untenable position" to me means that there is no water source beyond an inadequate rainfall, no food with no space to grow food and/or sources to obtain food through/from, and/or a security threat in which one will be facing overwhelming force unless a retreat can be made to a more defensible and sustainable location. I have planned on these events in case they occurred, AND NONE of my plans are fool proof!!!

The first casualty of all wars is the pre-wartime planning!!!

Meanwhile I pray, hope for the best, and plan for the worst as best as I can. My preparations give me confidence that we can handle most problems here at home and that gives me good sleeping periods when I am at home in my own bed. What more of life can I ask of it?

I have recently watched the full TV documentary of the BBC 2 program called Tribe. Many of the members of the Nemet tribe were actually ex soviet educated professionals such teachers, accountants, soldiers and doctors. They had actually made the decision to live their lives in this way rather as nomadic reindeer herders because of the lifestyle it gave them. They had the choice to live this way or conventionally in a town or city.

Additional notes:

1) I have BO plans for short term emergencies coming from several directions of the compass. These emergencies are in the realm of a hurricane landfall expected, a hazmat emergency in my immediate area, etc. These plans allow for many temporary Bug Out destinations going in several directions of the compass.

2) My primary plan for long term emergencies is to stay at home.
a) I would probably be gone from home (at work) if/when any emergency would occur (I am home 4 months out of each year).
b) My personal BoB is designed to get me home (walking/hiking if necessary).
c) Family medical concerns dictate that we maintain the home base for absolutely as long as possible.
d) If we had to bug out for good, there would not be a functioning vehicle which means that a pretty impressive library of knowledge would have to be left behind, along with many other valuable resources.

3) The primary plan to Bug Out, has land and some water but very little shelter.
a) I am thinking about renting a storage unit in the little village that we would bug out to and preposition supplies, including the library there.
b) If I was to rent 2 units, one could be set up for supplies and equipment and the other could be set up as emergency living quarters.
c) This place is somewhat defensible.
d) Family relatives occupy a good part of this village.
e) This village is 35 miles of walking from my home 20.

4) I have other permanent Bug Out locations available but the distances involved are prohibitive when trying to push a 250 lb wheelchair to them.
a) I do have some possible solutions to this problem and will be working on that problem after the first of the year.

"Everybody gotta die sometime, Red."

You can prepare all you want. You can come up with the best laid plans of mice and men. You can run 10 miles a day if you feel so inclined.

No one lives forever.

Make the best of the time you have, don't be foolish and squander the gift. Learn as much as you can and pass on the best parts to those that come after you.

You have but a little time to do what you can, then it is over. Very shortly thereafter, all memory of you will fade into nothing. Ultimately, you have no control over how it will end, only the parts leading up to that point, so if you aren't happy with the outcome, then you've only yourself to blame. You may not have many choices about lifestyle, or family, or opportunity, but you always have a choice about perspective. Even a poor wretch in a Gulag can have a positve attitude about life.

What does this have to do with the topic? Attitude is the biggest factor in our survival. I guess before I decide about whether I am going to bug out or stay put or whatever, nothing is as important to the outcome as is my expectation, and how I will face the adversities to follow.

Prepare all you want, if you don't have the right frame of mind, it will do you no good.

Consider this, what happens when you bug out, make it to whatever Shan-gri-la you are looking for, then contract pancreatic cancer and die miserably six months later. Was the six extra months of miserable life worth the effort?

The point is, have real expecations. For all our efforts, we only delay the inevitable. The most important thing, then, seems to be how best we can enjoy the time we've left.

Very well spoken.

IMHO, you've started for good, but summarized for bad
Enjoy what? Feeding my own ego or greed? That's the question.

If you can get past all the cartoons.

Susan:

In a book I read many years ago a character said something like, "A hundred thousand things can happen between one dawn and the next. Nothing is certain. Nothing is written."

I have taken that to heart, as meaning that survival for just one more day makes survival for another day possible...and another after that, and another after that.

I, too, would bug out as a last, a final, a desperate resort. But I would do so with the intent and expectation of survival...even if for just one more day.

Frank2135

Re: your comment on leadership...

All that can happen WITH leadership. The problem with leadership is that it's so tricky. Too much, too strong, and you've got problems (mutiny). Too little, too indecisive, and you've got problems.

Leaders tend to be bossy, self-important, dictatorial folks if you don't keep them slapped down. Have you ever lived in a community with a Homeowners Association? Whew!

I am the very, very last person who would join the military, and the reason is..... right! Leadership. Power. And it really does corrupt. The more you've got, the more you want. From what I've seen (little enough) of the military, the stupider, crazier and more self-important you are, the higher you will be promoted.

Speaking of which, tomorrow we get to make our pick of the hairbrained twits of America.

VOTE! Vote for the idiot of your choice, but VOTE!
(Sorry, Martin... )

Sue

Susan in your location, staying put would probably be best in most situations. Bug out is for those times it’s not. Any Equipment set aside for bug out can be used if you stay also it makes it easier and more efficient when and if the time occurs. Most of us don’t live in such a great place (YET!!!). Where my family lives is in a decent suburb of a large city in the southeast.
Large cities are going to be the first to feel the shortages brought on by a “widespread situation”. As a result there will be as there always have been those who will be ready to take what they want or need from anyone they are able to. In a “widespread situation” you will have decide whether to defend what you have or give in to the people who want it. To defend against them you need a place that is defensible. We live in a mobile in a nice area but it is indefensible, as are most trailers.
So we have in place a plan to bug out, not to the wilds to survive off the land, but to a location kind of like yours with friends and other family members. This gives us the time (hopefully) to decide what to do next. If the decision is made based on situation to stay. Then we begin what plans we have to provide for our safety and security. In the event that the situation is worse than we thought or deteriorate after our initial assessment then we will in convoy go to another predetermined place again like your with shelter (my retirement home), but further removed from large population centers. Again not surviving in the wilds but following a plan that provides more safety and security than a trailer near a large violent population center. Bugging out does not mean that I want to live in a tent for the rest of my life. It means putting as much distance as possible between me and the violence that is sure to follow a civil break down however short or long term.

Great quote.



I think you touched upon the constant balancing act of preparation. Perpective is just as important as anything else.

Part of my bug out plan is to know where I'm planning to go. Major SHTF bug out is 4 normal travel hours north to the mountains, 5 normal hours south to the mountains. I have places to go, with active streams and wells, and cabins on the site. Firewood is cut, and naturally abundant, large propane tanks are in place, and stores of food and gear are at each place, north and south. Others are expected to me at either place should we decide to go, we often cabin camp there. I know and have mapped out several ways of getting to each.

I live just a few feet above the mean water level of the 2nd largest lake in the area. I have a place within 3/4 mile in 2 directions that is 400 feet higher in elevation that I can go should flooding be immanent, that is also a major storm bug out.

My house is in a nice area, but within 5 city blocks in 3 directions are less desirable neighborhoods. If unrest hits the area, and I can safely get out, I'm gone to 1 of the 2 places in the paragraph above. If I have to bug in, I am equipped to do so, but heating my house is by natural gas, no other source. Should that get cut, it's leave or get cold.

IMHO, bugging out without a place to go, some basic needs gear and food item, and a viable plan for when you get there, makes you little more than a refuge.

I'm in SOCAL, there's no way out by car that won't be a parking lot. I've driven I-15 and I-8 during holidays and long weekends, SHTF bug out isn't going to happen.

The only thing I'll bug out for is a wildfire in this canyon. I'll have packed my truck (and did for the latest wildfires) so the only decision is when and where to we drive to wait for the all clear.

Earthquakes? Why bug-out after the damage is done?

My answer is that I'm bugging in. I'd rather be bugging in at a home with a well, garden and root cellar, but for the time being, where I am will do.

I consider myself very blessed that I have a place to bug out too. My family has lived on a small farm in WV for generations. My father was the first generation to have a job outside the farm and mine the first generation to not live on that land. My grandfather was a full time farmer with no outside income. I'm in an older neighborhood in the city and the city is moving more government dependent people in around me all the time and if something does happen they will come looking for their handout so my plans are to leave because its hard enough supporting them and guarding my place when things are normal.
I'm still working on getting my parents to let me build my on cabin on their farm, that way I can cache some supplies there as my mother decided my gun cleaning supplies were making her sick so I had to bring them back up with me, turned out it was some cheap potpourri crap she bought to clutter up her house but I still haven't stored anything there since.
My BOB is mainly a bug in bag to keep my gear organized at home but is also there to get me back to the farm if needed.

If we need to boogie, roll the awning in, disconnect and store the water, sewer, and electric hoses/cable, put the breakables that are hanging on the wall on the bed, run the three slides in, back the P/U up and connect the fifthwheel, remove the chocks, raise the landing gear, and we are off. If we REALLY have to go NOW, the water and sewer hoses will stay (I have spares of those), but the electric cable will go into the bed of the truck (those suckers are expensive). We rarely go below half a tank, so we can get a ways down the road, but if this is a major incident and everyone is trying to get gone, we would probably just stay put (unless it is a fire, and it is coming our way). We always keep our fresh water tank full, and have at least a weeks worth of food onboard, so that should not be a major problem for a while...

Let me re-phrase, by quoting Curly (not the stooge one):

Curly - "Do you know what the secret of life is?"

Mitch - "What, your finger?"

Curly - "One thing, just one thing. You stick to that, the rest don't mean shoot[edit]."

Mitch - "But what is the one thing?"

Curly - "You got to figure that out for yourself."


Need another hint, ask Ebenezer. He'll tell you what the one thing is.

I am a bit surprised you thought of ego and greed first. I suppose I didn't get the point across well enough at the beginning.

I too totally missed the Ramboism thread but find it interesting to read. Like most I've already made up my mind to bug in, and like some I've pre-decided to make myself useful in whatever situation arises. If that means splinting fractures and dealing with dead neighbors for 4-12 days after a bad quake, or planting what passes for a winter crop in the Pacific Northwest for mutual sustenance after something much bigger, so be it. I have roots where I am, an extended and talented family, some steady friends, a support system beyond any BOB, remote cabin or food cache. Either way or in between, we will do it together, here. I do have family I could flee to 2 hours, 24 hours and 72 hours away, but mostly that's for a pre-disaster decision, and I wouldn't expect their situation would be much better than mine. But generally, I will probably be on the last jeep (or litter) out of my neighborhood, because this is where I live, and all things being equal it affords me and my family the best chances of long term survival.

fwiw my sunny optimism is bouyed by my parent's experiences on the home front in WWII - stories of victory gardens, rations, and other pre-adolescent, non-combat memories (except for Uncle John, KIA in the Pacific, and Uncle Gerry, fought in Europe). More than anything, the ability of people to recognize that they really are All In It Together (TM), and to get through it they had better work together. I do believe in the angels of our better nature.

Where I live on the north coast of CA, there is a chance of earthquakes, but that would not require bugging out here, as the infrastructure is small and they are not very frequent or severe.
Wildfire is not a threat either since everything is wet most of the year and the vegetation is Redwood trees.
We are not near any nuclear targets (just thinking outside of the box) and the only fallout we would be downwind of anyways would have to come from overseas, though maybe from Alaska. There are no nearby volcanoes, so I won't have to acquire a taste for that kind of hotsauce.
Overall, we're pretty safe. Our only real danger is tsunami, which could happen at any time, and which could wipe the entire city off the map in no time!

As fun as it is to plan for a longer-term bug out situation, I would probably be like the majority of folks here and just bug in. Beyond that would be traveling to another local area to stay with relatives or friends and pool resources.

My realistic concerns are something along the lines of a hazmat incident (trail derailment, fuel tanker truck explosion, etc.), low level flooding, the possibility of earthquakes, and a wildfire sweeping through the rural areas, severe winter storm, etc.

All-out nuclear war or a large scale terrorist attack are something to daydream about, but aren't very likely in my area. Not saying that it can't happen, but accidents and natural disasters are much more likely.

So there's a range of time involved:

Hazmat incident = Prefer to shelter in place. If not an option; go NOW, uphill, upwind, upstream. Grab your BOB and head out.

Natural disaster = Same thing, shelter in place. If evacuation makes more sense grab your BOB, some additional supplies, and head out.

Terrorism or WW III = Most likely the same response as above, but with more emphasis on personal safety and protection.

Enlightening as usual Sue.

But now excuse me while I go cry into my pillow.

One thing that everyone is agreed on that bug out is a LAST resort.
That being said, it beats dying in. Sometimes a place becomes untenable, but often only temporarily.
Many crisis situations eventually reduce down to only tragedies.

People are capable of things unimagined when life demands it.
One of the many things I learned in the military was you can do a lot MORE than you think you can.

In the "Deep Survival" book will to live is given an essential place in determining the likely hood that a person is going to make it. Skills are an edge, but will has no substitute.

I personally think the survival instinct exist in all of us, but has been largely suppressed by a society that prefers PHRASECENSOREDPOSTERSHOULDKNOWBETTER..
Most of the people here are looking for all the edges (intangibles and skills) possible.

One of the things most infuriating to me is the perception that to be civilized is to be helpless. (OMG he/she has a knife, Why on earth does any one carry something like that when they have the American express card ?).

Like so many other post here my own plans are in steps from EDC to full scale bug in or out.
I hope that the day never comes but if it does at least I'm equipped right.

Don't forget the option to re-occupy the homestead does sometimes exist too.

Yes Susan has outlined a number of concerns that are valid, but
in 6 years of the US ARMY, a half dozen hurricanes a number of trips to South and Central America, have shown me that you can do a lot of things that seem impossible.
And no I hope I never have to do them again, but it beats being dead.

I have bug out plans, simply because I live in a burb near a major city.

A long term situation I would have to eventually go because I doubt I could defend what I have, where I am for very long.