I was just surfing the web and I came across these survival kits I don't think Doug has reviewed these kits yet and I wanted to know what you guys think of them. I wasn't thinking of buying any of these although they might be good kits.
The site is:
http://www.watkinsaviation.com/wa/store/catalog/catalog_type.asp?ProductType=Survival+Kits

Frank

Yep, they all look like great kits. It just disturbs me that all Mil-Spec stuff is made by the lowest bidder. I try to stay away from anything that has "Mil-Spec," or "NSN" in the product description...except when it comes to guns, goggles, gauze, and BDU's.

However, the military puts a lot of thought into what their soldiers will need on the battlefield...survival kits included. I roughly base my own kits on the ones you linked to, but substitute good, name-brand equipment instead of the low bid stuff. Thanks for the link, I would recommend these to people that don't want to build their own kit...provided they come with some form of instructions.

What the heck is "eye ointment"?

John McIntire

Doug could you review these kits as one of your next reviews?? It would great if you could.
<img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />Thanks

Frank

My experience with mil-spec gear is the opposite of what you imply by remarking that it is all Mfg'd by the lowest bidder. The cost of military gear is much higher than standard hiking gear to the taxpayer and the requirement that, say an entrenching tool, work correctly and durably is much more critical. My experience with Mil-spec surplus equippement is that it is the industrial equivalent of sporting goods. Where hiking equipment or wilderness equippment sold for recreation may break or need replacement the mil-spec stuff will never. OTOH the recreation equipment is certainly more hi-tech and often more comfortable and lighter to carry. EMS or REI can't require you to go through basic training and become a highly trained well muscled ox in order to sell you a steel frame pack that, though dreadfully uncomfortable, will outlive you and survive multiple wars. Instead EMS and REI need to sell light weight or ultra-light weight nylon with foam padding frame packs that will probably be a breeze for a weekend warrior to haul up and down a mountain once a year huffing and puffing all they because along with their minimalist 30 pounds of gear they are also carrying an extra 50 pounds of gut. I am not taking pock shots at weekend warriors ( I am one) I am just highlighting the differring requirments to which sporting goods and mil-spec goods are manufactured. Mil-spec goods don't wear out or break down. The specifications don't leave much room for poor workmanship and as a result we spend exorbitant tax dollars outfitting our military and then turn around and resell the surplus for pennies since it isn't canary yellow and marroon or made of the latest high-tec materials.

As for surplus clothing, the only outdoor clothing that come close to the surplus stuff I have is from Filson's. My Filson's vest cost me over $100. I have a pair of wool surplus trousers, field shirt, thermal underwear, balaclava, gloves and commando sweater ( all in military colours so I can't wear them to my high school reunion - aw-shucks) which cost me less than that one vest and are all of similar quality and wieght. In this outfit I can brave most any weather that the apalachains have to offer in New Hampshire (even though I am an overweight weekend warrior). In the wet weather I can add the surplus gortex parka and liner that I purchased for $50.00 and I am water and wind proof.

Yes, I own some high-tech stuff. My day-pack is one of the mid-sized hydration packs from camelback and it is well made. I have Vasque hiking boots with a goretex liner. I also have a medium alice pack for longer treks. It is somewhat uncomfortable but not worse than others that I have spent hundreds more on. After a while I learned how to load it correctly so that it rode comfortably.

I agree with Brad, Milspec is built well even though it is built by the lowest bidder. It is usually not the latest and greatest. The shop i work for recently did some of the lowest bidder work, the last revision on the drawing was 1970. The specifications provided really don't leave any room for poor quality, and there is a inspector from the government that comes by and checks the parts before delivery to make sure that everything meets specification.

What i would wonder about the survival kits is whether or not they are new. Since there are perishable supplies included, the kits may have reached the expiration date and were disposed of even though they were never issued.

Watkins Aviation is listed in the site retailer list. I did business with them once with excellent service. These units are for aviation personel. So, imagine you just punched out of your Tomcat over Iraq or Los Angeles. The military is mobilizing huge resources for your recovery. Aside from the main survival unit these smaller kits are in your flightsuit. The eye ointment for instance would be for trauma suffered during ejection.

Instead of trying to come up with some great reply to argue my point, I figured I'd better whip out the digital camera and show you what I mean by "lowest bidder." Mind you, I've had everything here for ONLY SIX MONTHS, and they were purchased from the PX at Fort Hood, Texas by my Grandfather...so I know for a fact that they are USGI issue.

Here you see the infamous E-Tool, it was rendered useless (broke the hinge) the first time I used it on a SAR effort.


Here you see a PASGT Helmet that is still usable, but the chin strap broke...can you replace just the chin strap? Noooooo, you have to buy a whole new $80 headband assembly for it.

Here you see a USGI Enhanced Load Bearing Vest, geez, I don't know where to start on this one...it's useless to me now...plastic D-rings broke a couple of months after I got it, one ripped completely off, they use cheap shoestring for the midsection adjustment, everything was rusted in a matter of weeks, and the snaps to hold a pistol belt don't "snap"

I wasn't knocking all of their equipment, in fact, I use a medium ALICE ruck and frame for my BOB, USGI magazines for my AR-15, have endless amounts of BDU's, love the PASGT helmet despite the chin strap, and I am hoping Santa will send me an M65 jacket with a liner. Oh yeah, and I bought another E-Tool...seems to be working fine so far...

I was simply quoting one of Murphy's Law's of Combat, and using my personal experiences with the above equipment to help someone out on their decision making.

I would never recommend any military-issue LBH/LBV to anyone, ever. After mine self-destructed, I bought a Blackhawk Omega EOD Vest, I love this thing and HIGHLY RECOMMEND IT to anyone who needs this type of equipment, here's a pic of it:


John McIntire

I can't argue your experiences. It does surprise me that such equipment as this has failed since these are or should be considered mission critical equippment for our soldiers. Is this a one time experience indicating the law of averages has struck or is this a consistant experience with more than one item indicating a design / sourcing problem? My experience with the coleman commercial entrenching tool was equally bad and when I compared it with the mil-spec one I was mightly impressed with the mil-spec tool for durability and manufacture. Can't say for sure that I purchased USGI surplus or NATO surplus - the design is the same though the quality may differ.

In any case - it looks as if your experience with the black hawk product is good and I will look seriously into their product when I look for a LBV / LBH type of garment.

well mil-spec stuff sold in stores are usually outdated or damaged, or whatever... since most army's leave the best stuff for them self ( DUH !!! ).

but mine limited experians with mil-spec equippedment is that the european stuff is usually better ( no offense yanks ), they have never failled me ( but than again, i havent used it to rough ) but more expensive even though, they dont have to pay import taxes and stuff like, here in the EU...

but i still think that mil-spec equippedment gives you the most bang for the buck so to speak, if you look at qualtiy vs price

Good looking vest

I practically always use surplus kit. Here in the UK it seems to be way cheaper that the commercial gear, even new. For example a full 1990 pattern set of webbing costs just £30, a bergen (rucsack) £70, and a Gore-tex bivvy bag costs....wait for it...... £50 compared to up to £300 for comercial ones.

Having been down this one before.

Doug sends a request for a free sample of the product to be reviewed. If the vendor will supply a free sample for review, Doug will review.

His selling point to the vendor is the wide public access to a non-biased review. Something akin to Consumer Reports.

It all really hinges on the vendor

Can't argue with your pictures John, most of what my shop has been running lately is aircraft parts and i would assume that the inspection process is less rigorous for things that don't fly.

On an unrelated topic, are you still in training for radiology? I went on a tour of a company that makes radiation shields for cancer patients. They make three dimensional aluminum or brass shields for limiting radiation exposure to surrounding tissues. Each one is custom made for a patient, with less than twelve hour turn around time. Really neat and hi tech machine shop.

Yes, I am still studying radiology. It will be a little while before I get my degree, but I'm in no hurry. I love my job as an officer, I just want something for "backup," I guess you could say.

The radiation shields sound very interesting. Twelve hour turn around, that's just awesome. It amazes me how many strides have been made in the medical field in the past decade or so. And with the recent mapping of the complete human genome...we can only expect more strides in the near future.

John McIntire

That omega vest looks coo,l what kind of hydration system can go in the back? I want to know because I might get one.

Frank <img src="images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

It has a built-in pouch for hydration systems in the back. It's designed to hold Blackhawk's "Hydrastorm" line...but I have seen fellow SAR members with a Camelback in theirs. In my opinion, it will fit any bladder on the market. The Omega EOD (the one I have pictured) is a great vest, if you want some more pictures of it, just drop me a line. Here's a link to the full specifications on the Blackhawk website: Blackhawk Omega EOD Assault Vest Hope that helps!

John McIntire

I need a good vest and that one looks perfect for me. I was also planing on buying a camel bak now I can just buy the vest. But I also might buy a small camel bak anyway so I don't have to be stuck wearing a vest if I don't want to.

Frank <img src="images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />