Am_Fear_Liath_Mor beat me to it!!!

I've been thinking about getting a Vargo Ti-Lite Titanium Mug. It fits over the end of a standard 1L Nalgene bottle which saves space. It weighs 5.2 oz yet holds .75L. By contrast, the USGI Canteen Cup weighs 8.96 oz and holds .7L. Yes, that's "only 4 oz," but think of it as a quarter pound -- save a few of those and you've got a pound, it really does add up ... just ask my back.

I've seen them for about $30.00 which is a little pricey, but not that bad.

One of the advantages of the Nalgene bottles is their wide mouth which facilitates the ingress of snow. In spring conditions, one can scoop snow into a half full of water Nalgene, hang it on the back of your pack, and let the sun work it's magic. I got about a quart of water that way in one afternoon on a hike I did last April. A quart is enough to make a big difference -- just ask anyone who's brought three quarts on a hike and needed four. In this case it turned out to be a lifesaver; I would have gone dry because the hike took longer than planned due to the heavier than expected snow.

When it's colder or overcast, I'd use the mug for melting snow, but it's still to my advantage to have a wide mouthed bottle that is easy to pour into or use as a snow holder as I add more snow to the mug during the melting process (the amount of snow you can stuff into a pot is only about a third of the capacity of the pot once is turns to water.

357gm? That's about 12.6 oz. A Nalgene bottle with a titanium canteen cup weighs about 10.5 oz, which only about 2 oz less (although a standard Nalgene holds 1.0L where as the flask only holds 0.6L. Still the stainless would be really strong and the size is nice for EDC. Plus, it has a really high cool factor.

The cost for the Sigg flask & cup is about $30.00. The cost of a Nalgene on sale is $5.95 + the titanium canteen cup is $30.00 or about $35.95. The Sigg looks good.

Has anyone had any rust problems with stainless steel drinking vessels?. For EDC use, I'd be a little worried about rust even with stainless steel. I have a stainless double wall thermos (no rust problems), but I rarely use it for more than a week at a time.

Hi Hikin_Jim

The Vargo Ti-lite Titanium Mug is an excellent bit of kit. Highly recommended. Rather than put in a Naglene bottle, a 110 butane gas canister, Optimux Cruz folding stove and brew kit fits just perfectly inside. Total weight excluding the brew kit is 435gms and allows about 3 days cooking capability for 1 person using British Army Rat packs (foil sachets heated in the Mug with the boiling water used for beverages) or lightweight dehydrated Reiter meal sachets. 2 Days during the winter. A folding Ti spork fits nicely inside the Vargo Mug as well.

I actually prefer the Standard Aluminium Sigg Bottle 144 grams with the Neoprene cover 82 grams - Total 226 grams. It is much lighter than the steel Sigg bottle and can be used as a hot water bottle on cold nights with the neoprene cosy. It also keeps the bottle from being affected from small dents during small knocks. The Sigg bottle can be/is used in conjuction with a Smartube drinking tube with appropriate adapter at 83 grams. A backup 2 Litre Platypus folding water bladder is also carried. A Smartube adapter can also be used with the Platypus bladder if required.

Optimus Crux stove? lol. It just so happens that I have an Optimus Crux stove which I carry on overnight trips. Good piece of kit. I was kind of thinking that for day hikes, where I don't normally take my stove, that a metal mug/canteen cup would be great for emergencies or even just a cup of tea. The stove in the mug idea is great (I do that with my mirro pot now), but for day hikes, sliding the Nalgene so that essentially no room in the pack is consumed seems like the way to go.



What the Sam Hill is a brew kit? Portable beer? Dude, that would be cool! The British Army and Reiter packets sound like good E-rats. I assume that they keep for extended periods. How's the taste?



What's the advantage of the Sigg aluminum vs. the Nalgene? The Nalgenes are also good for a hot water bottle. Never had a leakage problem.



I carry a 3L Nalgene foldable "cantene" (sic) as a backup. My standard water load (not necessarily all full, depending on the hike) for day hikes is:
1 Camelback, 2L
1 Nalgene lexan bottle, 1L
1 Nalgene foldable "cantene," 3L (why can't they call it a collapsible water carrier or bladder? Or at least "canteen," the normal spelling)

That gives me up to a 6L capacity which is enough for even extended day hikes in hot weather. If I take a shorter hike, I can leave the "cantene" behind.

Has anyone tried the Esbit stove? I was thinking that a little stove would be good to carry in cold weather on day hikes. Not sure I want to carry even my little Optimus Crux. The Esbit sounds like about what I want. Anyone used one? Are the fuel cubes ruined if the packaging is punctured?

Hi Hikin_Jim



Brew Kit is just a term for some tea bags or coffee, beverage whitener and sugar sachets. The instant tea in the British Army rat packs are terrible (replaced with some Scottish Blend or Nambarie tea bags) but the rest is otherwise pretty good although the can of Meat Pate is'nt to everyones taste. Each ration pack contains about 4000 calories, so one pack would last me about 2 days.

From the mreinfo web site;



Each 24 hour 1-man ORP came in a small brown corrugated cardboard box, with the full menu listings printed on the bottom (GP A-G, H, K, S, V, P, sundries and variants). Each box contains the following:
1 x Breakfast meal (in foil boil-in-a-bag packet, encased in a sealed polythene bag for added protection)
1 x Main meal (in foil boil-in-a-bag packet, encased in a sealed polythene bag for added protection)
1 x Dessert meal (in foil boil-in-a-bag packet, encased in a sealed polythene bag for added protection)

1 x Soup, powdered form, in sachet (varying flavours; Beef & Tomato, vegetable, Cream of mushroom, etc, manufactured by "Chequer Foods Ltd")

1 x Meat Pate, such Turkey and Herbs, Chicken and Herbs, etc (in small, ring pull opening, can)
1 x Oatmeal block (A slight exaggeration! It is really just a small Oatmeal biscuit, in metallic green foil packet)
1 packet x Biscuit Browns (approximately 6 in metallic green packet)
1 packet x Fruit Biscuits (approximately 6 in metallic pink or green packet)
1 x Milk chocolate bar (usually a bar manufactured by "A. Gandola & C. S.p.A. of Italy", but sometimes a brand called "Duncans of (Bellishill) Scotland")
1 x Milk chocolate with raisins and cereal bar (usually a brand called "Duncans of (Bellishill) Scotland")
1 packet of Boiled sweets (various fruit flavours, manufactured by "Chequer Foods Ltd")
1 packet of Wrigley?s chewing gum (usually Wrigley?s Extra, but sometimes a smaller packet of Wrigley?s chewing gum in tablet-like form)

1 x Drinking chocolate mix sachet (manufactured by "Eurogran of Kalundborg")
2 x Coffee sachets (manufactured by "Chequer Foods Ltd")
2 x Beverage whitener sachets, for coffee (manufactured by "Chequer Foods Ltd")
4 x Instant white tea sachets (manufactured by "Premier Brands") - Yuck
8 x Sugar sachets (Manufactured by "Single Service")
1 x Orange or Lemon drink powder sachet (manufactured by "Eurogran of Kalundborg")
1 x Vegetable stock drink sachet (manufactured by "Single Service")

1 packet x Kleenex Tissues (manufactured by "Kleenex")
6 x Water purifying tablets
10 x Water/windproof matches with striker (matches and striker sealed in separate polythene compartments, to prevent accidental striking during packing, handling, and transportation)

I also like to supplement the ration pack with a small can of red or white white, just like the French Ration packs used to have. Its not been unknown to carry a couple of Malt Whiskey minitures as well.



I just like the way the Sigg Bottle is easier to handle and to drink from. I find the Sigg Bottle just more manageable. They are also slightly easier to pack in an open side pocket on the back pack as well.

3 Litres is plenty for me. Here in Scotland, fresh water is always nearby and plentiful. Most of it travels horizontally through the air . Thankfully hot weather is a rare event rarely getting above 25 degrees Celsius. During the one or two days when the temperature becomes unbearably warm the cooler temperatures in the mountains is a welcome relief.



I would stick with the gas stove. Its less messy, easier to light, has a greater controllable heat output and is generally a more reliable way to bring water to the boil. I wouldn't really attempt to bring to the boil more than a cup full (300ml) of water at any one time using Esbit tabs. The Esbit stove although may be a lighter alternative on warm windless days for making single cups of tea or coffee. The Esbit tablets have an unlimited lifetime even if exposed to the air. Esbit tablets are really useful in a PSK as well.

I was hoping that you had mastered the art of beer making in the field. I kind of suspected that wasn't it.



Wow. Now that's a nice ration packet. Far nicer than American MRE's. How much does one of these ration packets weigh?



Now there's a man who is prepared.



Good point. The Sigg is taller and thinner and would be easier to put it in a side pocket. I do like the wide mouth of the Nalgene, but the Sigg seems like a quality item too. The other nice thing about Nalgenes is that many water filters will screw directly on to the bottle, which is quite convenient.



Quite a difference from S. Calif. Water is frequently hard to find; known springs and streams are often unreliable. Temperatures over 40C are common in the summer. We think of 30C as a nice cool day and rejoice after a week of 40C weather.



That's great news about the Esbit tabs. I was afraid that they'd be like Wetfire, which becomes useless once it's packaging is compromised. I've been carrying them for a while in my PSK. I figure they might be just the thing to start a fire on a wet, cold day where all the wood is quite sodden. Maybe I'll have to experiment with them just a bit to see how they behave in wind (with out starting a forest fire in the process!).

Hi Hikin_Jim

The British Ration Pack is pretty heavy at around 1600 grams. Its not lightweight but there is enough calories for me for about 2 days. I would say that the packaging wastage is probably around 100-120 grams. At 4000 calories for 1500 grams this works out at 266 Kcal/100gms. Not to bad considering no addition water needs to be added to the main meals, but this can be improved by adding a few freeze dried main meals such as the Reiter main meal packets and Breakfast Oatmeal Sachets (Scotts Porage Oats) for multiday hikes. The breakfast meal should actually be considered a main meal. The meals can also be eaten cold just like the MRE. The cost of the ration pack can be had locally for about £5 or $10.

1 x Breakfast meal (in foil boil-in-a-bag packet, encased in a sealed polythene bag for added protection) - 313 grams
1 x Main meal (in foil boil-in-a-bag packet, encased in a sealed polythene bag for added protection) - 334 grams
1 x Dessert meal (in foil boil-in-a-bag packet, encased in a sealed polythene bag for added protection) - 222 grams

1 x Soup, powdered form, in sachet (varying flavours; Beef & Tomato, vegetable, Cream of mushroom, etc, manufactured by "Chequer Foods Ltd") - 50 grams

1 x Meat Pate, such Turkey and Herbs, Chicken and Herbs, etc (in small, ring pull opening, can) -85 grams
1 x Oatmeal block (A slight exaggeration! It is really just a small Oatmeal biscuit, in metallic green foil packet) - 26 grams
1 packet x Biscuit Browns (approximately 6 in metallic green packet) - 88 grams
1 packet x Fruit Biscuits (approximately 6 in metallic pink or green packet) - 99 grams
1 x Milk chocolate bar (usually a bar manufactured by "A. Gandola & C. S.p.A. of Italy", but sometimes a brand called "Duncans of (Bellishill) Scotland") - 60 grams
1 x Milk chocolate with raisins and cereal bar (usually a brand called "Duncans of (Bellishill) Scotland") - 60 grams
1 packet of Boiled sweets (various fruit flavours, manufactured by "Chequer Foods Ltd") -60 grams
1 packet of Wrigley?s chewing gum (usually Wrigley?s Extra, but sometimes a smaller packet of Wrigley?s chewing gum in tablet-like form) approx 10-15 grams

1 x Drinking chocolate mix sachet (manufactured by "Eurogran of Kalundborg") 52 grams
1 x Orange or Lemon drink powder sachet (manufactured by "Eurogran of Kalundborg") -50 grams

2 x Coffee sachets (manufactured by "Chequer Foods Ltd")
2 x Beverage whitener sachets, for coffee (manufactured by "Chequer Foods Ltd")
4 x Instant white tea sachets (manufactured by "Premier Brands") - Yuck
8 x Sugar sachets (Manufactured by "Single Service")
1 x Vegetable stock drink sachet (manufactured by "Single Service")
1 packet x Kleenex Tissues (manufactured by "Kleenex")
6 x Water purifying tablets
10 x Water/windproof matches with striker (matches and striker sealed in separate polythene compartments, to prevent accidental striking during packing, handling, and transportation)

Sundries Total 150 grams

Total for Complete Ration Pack minus Cardboard Box approx 1612 grams

1600 grams is around 3.5 lbs, which is on the heavy side. Still, if one can get at least one, maybe two days out of one ORP, that starts approaching 1 lbs/meal.

There is, however, one little drawback for those of us who dwell on the west side of "the pond." I've done several searches, but ORP's seem to be unavailable in the US. MRE's are ubiquitous, but nary an ORP is to be found.

I include an Esbit "stove" in all my survival kits :
* they do not take a lot of space ;
* useful to help starting a fire ;
* useful to warm some water for a hot drink/soup ;
* OTOH, they will not boil a great amount of water ;


this in addition to alcohol stoves, that I take for more "serious" "cooking" ...