I have a brother-in-law and nephew that are involved in Boy Scouts and have a great interest in wilderness survival. They already have DR PSP's so I decided to make some larger kits for Christmas presents. I used a US Army M-16 pouch for the container. The kit is a way for the two of them to experiment with different items, as I have used fairly cheap stuff. This is in no way suppose to be a complete kit, but a training tool. I have already assembled a contents list with recommended additions of higher quality stuff. I would love to hear what others think of this idea as well as other items I could recommend adding. Below is the list of items in the kit, sorry no pics my digital camera is acting up:

Item:

1: Contents, Survival Tips
2: Pencil & 4 sheets write in rain paper
3: Small cheap multi tool
4: 25ft 550 cord
5: Howler whistle
6: Mini Bic lighter
7: Magnesium firestarter
8: Mini Photon X-light
9: 8 Fish Hooks
10: 50 ft 15lb test fishing line
11: Mayday Rescue mirror
12: Button compass
13: 1 Medium, 1 large needle w/15ft upholstery thread
14: 6 Med safety pins
15: Survival blanket
16: 2 39gal lawn and garden trash bags
17: Water purification straw
18: Water purification tablets (20)
19: 5ft Duct tape
20: 14 Motrin, 8 Immodium
21: 4 Gerber bags
22: Slingshot band
23: P-38 can opener
24: 5ft heavy aluminum foil
25: 20ft mil spec snare wire
26: 30ft waxed dental floss
27: 5 butterfly bandages
28: 1 large fish hook
29: 3 bullion cubes
30: 2 tea bags
31: fresnel lens
32: 1qt ziploc freezer bag, acts as container for kit

Hi CBTENGER,

Giving a survival kit as a present is an excellent idea, one which I also have done.

Your selection of kit equipment looks great to me, I would be very happy to recieve one as a Christmas gift!

Some suggestions,

- I do not know what tools on are the multitool but I find a wood saw very handy, if the tool does not have one perhaps you can include a Commando wire saw or something like a folding hacksaw/jigsaw blade tool. Maybe a SAK with a saw?
- Some fire starter like a packet of PJ/Cotton Balls or commercial tinder. Packaged 1st aid alcohol wipes can be lit in a pinch and are dual purpose.
- 1st aid packets of antiseptic and also antibiotic cream.
- SPF lip balm tube and sunscreen packet.
- 2 quarters for a pay phone call.
- A small fishing lure (spoon) in case no bait is available (eg winter).
- A couple packets of sugar, just because I like it in my tea.
- A small knife sharpening stone (even emery cloth would work).
- Could a metal container for cooking fit inside the pouch, I am thinking of a mini-loaf pan or can with a snap lid (I have used a chocolate syrup can in the past).

Your idea has got me thinking about Christmas gifts and perhaps I should construct a small kit for my brother-in-law, Thanks.

Merry Christmas,

Mike

What exactly is mil-spec snare wire, and where can it be gotten?

That reminds me, this year I am giving both the girls an upgraded BOB for college. They've been making due with odds and ends, and I think it's time they got fully equipped.

Gonna be some fun, yesiree. Already bought all three girls matching Busse Badger Attack knives ($200+ each), that they love, and match up with my LE Badger Attack, which was closer to $400, but worth every dang nickel. They'll have a decent place to stow them knives come christmas time, though I am gonna have to get busy on them leather scabbards.

I am also gonna throw in some of them wind-up duramax flashlight/radios from Costco, and a properly augmented FAK (ain't quite thought through what all I am gonna include in that yet). Yep, there's gonna be a whole bunch of goodies in them bags, which will likely be either Maxpedition or Camelbak or Blackhawk.

Hey, if I gotta blow coin on them anyways, it might as well be for something I consider to be of value too.

Hey CBTENGER,

I thought of another inexpensive but important addition, insect repellent, like those Deep Woods OFF towellete packets. You could survive without bug dope, but in June it would be no fun around here.

Mike

Nice idea -- one suggestion: instead of a cheap, knock-off multi-tool, what about getting them a used leatherman or gerber off ebay? Better quality, similar price.

Teacher

The leatherman is one of my recommended upgrades. I just wanted to add something that they could beat up.

It's military trip wire. I got six rolls of 80ft each for around $5.00 at cheaperthandirt.com

It looks pretty good. Only one or two "huh"s.

Thoughts:

Double bag the kit- gives them a spare bag for water, and helps protect everything. Triple bagging would be good, would generally be seen as obsessive.

Swap the bullion cubes for ramen seasoning packs- if you do you get water in the kit, you don't get beefy smelling gear. The smell never gets out.

Ditch the slingshot- yes you can get food. But you have to be pretty dang good to get more with the slingshot than you will the fishhooks.

Do they drink tea? If not, maybe some sugar packets.

A couple of zipties.

If the pouches are of the variety that have the little eyelet tab at the top for attaching suspenders, put a split ring on it, and attach a mini biner, and put a couple of spare split rings on it so they can move the whistle, light, whatever they like out to that point so they can reach it without digging.

Ironraven,

I have 2 sets of Bullion (16 total cubes) in my BOB. Do you think keeping the cubes in double zip-lock bags will keep the smell from sneaking into the rest of your kit?

Try it. So long as they stay dry, I don't see why not. But as much as I like ziplocks, I don't always trust them.

The danger is when you go for a swim or get caught in the rain. Rain gets in with the bullion cubes, you get bullion. If the rain gets in, the bag has failed. Failed bag let rain in, will let bullion out. Assuming that the outter bag mostly works, then you get survival kit stew with a base of bullion. Everything smells and tastes like bullion.

Bears like bullion. So do skunks, racoons, porcupines, and perversely enough, chipmunks and squirrels. Probably catamounts and bobcats, to. No one you want interested in your survival kit. And it would be worse if you wore some of the stew.

The only think I'm more protective in terms of water getting in is matches and my FAK.

That makes sense. why do so many people put Bullion cubes in there BOB's (including DR)??

Plus Bullion has at least some actual broth material in it (i.e. chicken broth for chicken bullion etc.). I thought the Ramen seasoning packs were, well... seasoning? I thought the idea of having bullion cubes was to have a "ready" broth to add to something else ( meat, etc...)?????

I had bullion cubes in my first couple survival kits as a Scout, they were pooly sealed and leaked all over everything (big mess). They also take a long time to desolve into broth, since then I found small, sealed packets of powdered bullion that are not only package better, they are easier to use.

Mike

Where did you find those packets of bullion??

Boy, I'm glad you guys told me about the Bullion cube weakness!! At least I only "wasted" a whopping $1.00 or so on the 2 packs of 8 cubes!!!

Ramen seasoning packets basically are powdered bullion, plus herbs. I guess dessicated parsley is an herb. :P Plus they come in more flavors.

It is in there for morale, and to help with the seasoning of other foods. Give me a seasoning packet, say spicey beef, a couple of field mice, a bit of wild onion and a small cattail tuber, stick in coals in some foil, I've got good stew.

I included the ramen packs not cubes, I just thought it was easier to list them as cubes. You gave me that advice awhile back on a separate topic. Thank you for that as I have since switched all of the cubes in my other kits.

Hi Rusty,

I found them at the local grocery store about 10 years ago.

I just walked into the kitchen and have the box in front of me right now, it says; Knorr OXO Boullion Sachets. Each "sachet" is slightly larger that an alcohol wipe packet and the box contains 16 of them (chicken or beef flavour), I think the box was about $2.00. I use them regularly when I make stews or soup, I cannot remember if I they are stocked in the spices or soup store isle?

Good hunting,

Mike

Thanks Mike!!

I'll look for them next time i'm at the store. If i can't find them, i'll just get some Ramen noodles (for the seasoning packets).

First off, I no longer use "cubes," I use the little very low sodium bullion packets from Herb-Ox (unless I am putting together a "vegetarian" kit). These have the advantage of being sealed in foil, dissolve much quicker than the cubes, almost instantly, and are much, much lower salt. Vacuum packing the bullion, especially if cubes, is the way to go.

The bullion gives you a very compact means of providing a welcome morale boosting hot drink which stores well.

Thanks Doug!!

I'll look for the Herb-Ox Bullion.

One thing I find intensely irritating about bouillon cubes or packets is that there really isn't any true bouillon in them.

Hormel Herb Ox Very Low Sodium Instant Broth and Seasoning has the nerve to brag "Made with Real Chicken". Chicken fat treated with propylene glycol is hardly chicken.

Ingredients: SWEETENER (SUGAR AND/OR DEXTROSE,)POTASSIUM CHLORIDE, ONION POWDER,MALTODEXTRIN, MONOAMMONIUM GLUTAMATE, GELATIN, CHICKEN FAT (CONTAINS PROPYLENE GLYCOL, TBHQ AND CITRIC ACID), EXTRACTIVE OF TURMERIC, NATURAL FLAVORING, PARSLEY, DISODIUM INOSINATE, DISODIUM GUANYLATE.

Nutrition Facts Serving size-1 packet (4g) Servings per container - 50 Calories 10 Total Fat 0 Sodium 5mg Total Carb 2g Sugars 1g Protein 0

BTW, I ran across a site that lists some of the hidden sources of MSG: http://www.benfrank.net/nuke/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=145

Sue

Susan,
Try STEERO chicken flavor Bouillon Cubes.
Ingredients: Salt, Chicken, Corn Syrup Solids, Sugar, Chicken Fat, Monosodium Glutamate . . . Onion Powder, Garlic Powder, . . .and the rest of the usual suspects.

Okay, salt is #1, but Chicken is #2 and #5 and salt is not necessarily bad. Wish they'd move MG south of Onion and Garlic Powder, or just get rid of it -- at least it has chicken.

MSG ain't so bad, just moderate it a bit, same as with salt. If you can't tolerate it then there are alternatives.

For that matter, even having just some seasonings would be better than nothing. One of the jungle combat rules was to always carry a bottle of Tabasco with you, as it tends to make the grubs and monkey meat go down a little easier.

I just tried the small loaf pan tonight. It would be a great addition but several items are too long to fit in the pan. I would think that the 5ftx12in of aluminum foil that I've included would work for basic boiling and such. I was thinking that someone should market a collapsible cooking pot that would be small enough for these types of kits.

Funny you mentioned this. I've been looking for a version of this http://www.snewsnet.com/cgi-bin/snews/03062.html that can handle direct flame/heat (some type of metal?).

I haven't seen one in person, so not familar with how it works (how is the waterproofing done, now much flex the plastic goes through, etc).

Its an idea... even if all you can do is get a metal version that gives you a frame, then put in some tin foil to give it its 'waterproofness'.

Kris

I was thinking something like this: www.williams-sonoma.com/products/sku8717035/index.cfm?pkey=cCTLSCOI.

It's plastic, but some type of flame resistant plastic could be used for the pop down parts, with metal bottom, legs and rim.

Be sure to include plenty of extra contractor grade trash bags for emergency raincoats. The method I've found works best with a book pack is to split them down one side, put it around you & the pack, & hold the split together with some of the black binder clips. Regular 33 gal. bags are a bit small for me using this method.

I think the disposable foil pans might be the way to go - squash 'em flat and straightened up they are a strong container (I wouldn't keep opening and closing them, but then how often would you need to?)

I'd keep the foil as well - a lid for the pan or back up.

A container for boiling water is really quite hard to improvise in the woods

I don't know how large is a "US Army M-16 pouch".
Could it contain a Trangia mess tin like the one I used for my kits ?

I have an idea for this -- will post pictures later.

I've tried them, I always get more and larger holes than I have with aluminum foil. But I've never been accused of having a delicate touch.

Well, if it is the old ALICE pouch, about 3"x3"x7"... sorry, about 7.5x7.5x17.5cm. So it would be tight, you might get enough wiggle room but I'd be surprised. Just barely too small.

As I recall, you guys had a pouch that held three FAL magazines as part of your LBE. If you could find one of those in a surplus store, it should work with the tin in question. Baring that, if you were still thinking MilSurp, look for a clone of our newer canteen cover.

An update....I tried the small loaf pans, and with a bit of space management, everything fits inside the pan. The pan fits inside the pouch with plenty of room left over. Thanks for the great ideas.