How about a full sized hybrid pick up that gets about 30mpg and doesn't give up much in the way of towing at that efficency? They've made them as prototypes- give it three or four years.

But I think the "horsepower" argument is the most pointless I've ever heard, unless you are just being belligerent. No one is saying that hybrids work for everyone- they don't. I wouldn't bother, because as much as I like them, I don't spend enough time in city traffic to justify it, for my type of driving you can get the same performance for less money. If you need the towing power, drive a beast. But if you can't justify the expense of owning such a truck, why would you want to?

A car is a tool. You buy the one that best fits your needs and budget. Anything else is just Freudian.

A Camry? The Escape? Please not the Civic, anything but the Civic.

If it was, we won't burn you. Just drive safe.

*bows head for a moment of preemptive silence*

:P

No problem- it reminds me of guys I dormed with to. Some rooms you avoided going into due to the risk of a contact high. *shudders*

Nope, I wouldn't buy one. I'm concerned over the environmental impacts that the hybrids bring to the table. Not to mention the vehicle purchase price and the fact you need to drive for years to be able to catch up to the fuel savings.

A diesel would be my vehicle of choice, with fingers crossed that bio-diesel production increases.

Would like to have a pick up that would get 30 mpg. The one that i have seen was made by GM and was more of a big generator than a true hybrid. It will have to depreciate quite a few more years before it would be in my budget.



Ironraven, are you making fun of my sports car that has a rip-roaring 140 horse power. Should also mention that I have owned several V8 powered muscle cars, still have friends that are dumb enough to let me drive their very powerful muscle cars and the only car that I have ever been stopped for speeding in was the little 140 horse power mazda.

But I do know what you mean about owning a beast sized vehicle and not using it for it’s intended purpose. I use my truck as a truck, it’s made to tote and haul and that is what I do with it. But I know plenty of people that never use one for anything other than getting down the road.



A truck is a tool, a cool car is freudian.

My wife and I have a running joke about the inverse relationship between penis size and truck size.

(never objectively validated this myself but it's still funny and feels better to think it especially when some shmuck has got his sheep's head up my rear-end on the interstate).

... "so you can feel all smug and superior."

That could have been phrased more delicately. Perhaps something along the lines of: As I see it many of the people who buy these vehicles are doing so for reasons other than efficiency and saving the planet. Many of them seem to be primarily motivated by a desire to ... "feel all smug and superior".

In effect saying the same thing without pointing a finger at anyone in particular and phrasing it more as an observation than an insult.

Fallshirmjager has something resembling a point. Hybrid cars are not the be and end all of automotive efficiency. Made worse by the fact that the manufacturers haven't been exactly up front with the real-world mileages and the down side of a battery pack that both represents a major proportion of the total replacement cost of the vehicle and one which has a limited lifespan even if everything goes well.

It isn't as if the manufacturers and advertisers in this society are squeaky clean and always completely honest. That hybrids would get in real life something less than what the sticker says shouldn't surprise anyone.

I thought the EV-1 was a good idea. As someone noted it wasn't a car that was for everyone. It would only fit the usage of about 70% of the people. The remainder would have to use something else. OF course the EV-1 program was killed as soon as the mandate expired and it no longer fit the makers image as a company pushing efficiency and advantage.

Europeans have gone into diesel technology. It is a simple and effective technology. Little known fact: The first diesel engine was designed to run on vegetable oil. Diesels would eliminate the need to change vegetable carbs to ethanol. A process which is hard to get more energy out of than you put in. Planting an oil crop and squeezing out fuel is much simpler and inherently more efficient. It is also easier to store, ship and use efficiently.

IMHO the biggest problem with hybrids is that in trying to be all things to all people they are trying to do too much. The complicated mechanisms that are cobbled together to try to make this happen have a lot of potential issues. Many of these will not become entirely apparent for years after the initial purchase. Reliability, repair-ability, the consequences of crashes and long-term durability and practicality remains to be seen.

I would buy a small vehicle with a efficient diesel if one was available. I would also buy an updated version of an EV-1. But neither of these is set up to be available and function in this country.

I don't have anything against hybrids. I have friends that love their hybrids. While both diesels and electric cars are well known technologies hybrids seem to me to be in an early level of development. In another five years a lot of the long-term issues will be known and hurdles, like finding a mechanic that will work for reasonable prices, will be solved. Or not. I think I will hold off strongly considering one until the jury has returned a final verdict.

... "so you can feel all smug and superior."

I didn't see this as pointed to anyone in particular, although, it sure could be pointed at many of the people in my office. As a general comment, I agree with it wholeheartedly.

Am I banned now too?

VW and Mercedes both make (or made last year) midsize diesel cars and SUVs in the states. Jeep made a diesel Liberty SUV and now makes a diesel version of the Grand Cherokee. Lots of other companies have diesels on the way out (Audi, Honda, Nissan, ect). They're out there (or they will be soon) and they get great mileage. I had a friend with a diesel Jetta that would get near 50mpg highway. That's hard to beat. Most people don't even know they exist though, since the diesel models aren't heavily advertised.

Like, Did you know Mercedes currently has four diesel models currently available? All getting 30% better gas mileage than their gas counterpart, with much more torque, while only costing $1,000 more? Most people don't.

We got the Escape 2.4 liter (or is it 2.3?). It was a close race between the Escape and the Toyota RAV4. In the end.....well, I told the end first.

I 'preciate the prayer........