Sue,
Now you don't seem from your postings to be a person who would speak in generalties or resort to stereotypes. So I assume you weren't speaking of all kids and teachers from our public schools. Having been married to a wonderful primary school teacher for 35 years and having two daughters that are products of public schools (one was a Jeopardy champion this past spring, the other cum laude grad of a liberal east coast college who's caught salmon in Alaska and who has provided bear protection for her FS colleagues) who know pefectly well all those things you listed. While there are problems in our schools (caused in my mind by the onerous administrative demands put on classroom teacher among other things) many schools do work very well. For every self-absorbed, ditzy SoCal social butterfly there are far more kids who are smart, tough, and involved. Just look at the kids serving in our military.

What Jay doesn't show are all the kids who looked at him like he's crazy for asking such a juvenile question.

Relax people, the next couple of generations are going to be no better and no worse than we boomers are/were at solving the problems of the world.

Andy

PS, how did it go with the roof repairs?

Sorry, no linc that I know of. We saw it at least a couple of years ago. You might go to his website, it is probably under "JayWalking," which is a hoot in itself. Imagine him being on Melrose Blvd in L.A., asking a good ole, born in the USA type what country borders the US on the north, and getting a blank stare as a response. Or showing a picture of an elephant to someone, and they call it a horse. I kid you not...

You HAVE been in California, haven't you???

Same with me. I struggled thru high school (goofed off is probably a better term), went into the service for three years, eleven months, and twenty three days (but who was counting), got out, went to a J.C. on the GI Bill, and pretty much maxed out all of the required courses, and a few electives. All on what I had learned in high school. What is wrong with that picture???

As far as I've seen, the kids who are educated are the products of parents who care, and who taught them things at home, maybe without even realizing it. Then, when they went to school, they used what they knew to learn more.

But most kids.... no.

The purpose of schools is not to teach facts, but to teach learning methods so the kids can continue learning for the rest of their lives. But if they can't read...

It's been proven that our schools are garbage, and the teaching methods are garbage. But has anything changed in the last 50 years? No.

And I don't care how good a teacher is, he and she are limited by what the schools insist they do.

Got some time? Read what teacher/counselor Linda Schrock Taylor says about schools: http://www.lewrockwell.com/taylor/taylor-arch.html. She's a teacher, but homeschooled her son. What does that tell you?

Sue

"...She's a teacher, but homeschooled her son. What does that tell you?..."

Scares the crap outta me!!!

Teachers get first hand experience at how messed up the public education system is.
Even when I was in school they didn't teach anything, it was a simple memorization of the "facts" at that time. I've noticed that even with a couple years difference between my wife and mine education the number of differences in the history books as facts are changed to match the authors views of the event and the teachers are required to teach it even if they know it was wrong.
There were times when I took my own books to school and read them in class when the teachers wouldn't teach, the ones that would take us down to the gym so they could spend time with their sports team getting them ready for the big game while their class had a study hall.

You've sure got that right. DW teaches in the New York City schools. When kids don't do their homework, she calls the parents. More often than not, the answer is, "nothing I can do about it, you people are supposed to be teaching them." At her last parent-teacher night, ONE parent showed up, out of five classes of 20 to 30 kids.

Of course, the administrators' solution is always a call for more money.

Hi Susan,



I have even read that even some motion picture titles have been changed to accomodate the 1500 word vocabulary and historical knowledge failings.

Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone (Canada: English title) (International: English title) (UK)
Harry Potter (USA) (working title)
Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone (USA) (Whats a philosopher? Hmm maybe even the public school educator would have a tough time answering this one. )

The Madness of King George III (UK)
The Madness of King George (US) (distributors thought that no-one would want to watch the film having missed the first two )

I actually agree with every thing you have said about the use of the phonic method rather than the look-&-say methods. The ability to decode the written word almost always requires a phonic approach together with its use within a social vocabulary (its common use within the family, associates and contemporaries). Even the Oxford English Dictionary has entries beside each word using the internationally known method of phonic pronunciations. Comprehension of the individual word just requires access to a dictionary together with the ability to understand its grammatical use within a sentence. Word and sentence comprehension also requires a formal understanding of the use of verbs, adverbs, nouns and the understanding of the use of full stops, quotations marks, semicolons etc. Without a solid understanding of the primary spoken and written language skills, progress on to more advanced English literature will be almost impossible. This is where reading and writing stops becoming a chore and starts becoming an enjoyment for students.

Does the US education system have a set of age related basic standard requirements? Is there a safety net such as remedial action one to one teaching for those unfortunate students who have failed to meet the grade. The idea that a 12-14 years old student who cannot read and has been able to pass through an educational system up till this point is quite shocking.

Also what formal texts are required reading? (this is where the philosphical analysis and political discussion etc start to enter the fray)

Some required reading (English Literature) when I was at School,

1984,
To Kill a MockingBird,
Hamlet,
Lord of the Flies,
MacBeth,
The Merchant of Venice,
A Midsummer Night's Dream,
Romeo and Juliet,
Death of a Salesman,
The Catcher in the Rye,
Gregory's Girl.
Adventures of Huckleberry Finn.
The Adventures of Tom Sawyer.
Brave New World.
The Time Machine

BTW my friends 12 year old daughter is currently reading Homer's epic Odysseus in her first year at her state run Secondary School. Even I thought this was a bit of tough read for a 12 year old. But then its nice to know that standards haven't dropped since I was at School.

Hi NightHiker

From 1984 by George Orwell;



the quote just popped into my head; Darn that PHRASECENSOREDPOSTERSHOULDKNOWBETTER. State controlled conspiracy of political indoctrination from English Literature class (actually first read it in 1984).

We need specific examples please !! (sorry about the use of the 'royal' we BTW)