#108776 - 10/16/07 12:24 AM
Re: Concerning the “Altoids Tin Survival Kit”
[Re: TQS]
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Addict
Registered: 12/01/05
Posts: 616
Loc: Oakland, California
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The "Altoid" type kits are the children of the old WWII survival tins used especially by the SAS. The kit was designed to have bare essentials, tools and materials to make an escape, evade and survive. It is a bare minimum not to replace a rucksack full of gear.
In today's application the Altoid kit or pocket survival kit is again a bare minimum to supplement other gear in say a backpack. If one were to lose or get separated from their pack/gear the survival tin would supply items to replace ones in the pack and cover at least some basics.
In the case of many PSKs fire and tools are these basics. So yes a PSK is not a be all end all survival kit but it is a bare bones everything else has failed or been lost survival kit.
Go check out or reread Doug's great articles. He describes many layers of survival gear a pilot (he is a pilot..) should have and what is in his pockets (EDC) is the very last and thinnest layer.
For others their last layer may be a lighter and a knife. For others it is a whole lot more. The Altoid tin is for the whole lot more aspect.
Bill
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#108778 - 10/16/07 12:25 AM
Re: Concerning the “Altoids Tin Survival Kit”
[Re: Halcon]
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Geezer
Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
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Sigh.
Look what MacGyver could do with a paperclip!
My regular Altoids tin (2.5x3.5x.75" ID) can hold
* 100 paperclips (the large ones, just under 2") (And YES, I did just count them!)
* a flat Brand-X lighter
* 6 quarters
* Some TinderQuik
* A single-edge razor blade
* 3 BandAids
* 2 safety pins
* 6 fishhooks & a swivel
And it even CLOSES!
Now, if you can't survive a cold night in the mountains, amputate your leg from the cougar attack, dowse for water, and signal for help with all that gear, you're just plain hopeless, and you know what you're going to be nominated for, don't you!!!
And don't whine that you can't practice amputations... there isn't a family alive that can't spare a couple of relatives -- you've all got some meth junkies, "funny" uncles, nasty aunts, not to mention a sibling or two you wouldn't miss. And if you really don't (I mean REALLY), I've got a sister you can have. (Silent bidding, cash only, small denominations.)
Sheesh! What wimps!
Sue
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#108784 - 10/16/07 01:18 AM
Re: Concerning the “Altoids Tin Survival Kit”
[Re: ]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078
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I have no idea what you'd need a sewing kit for in regards to a snake bite Large constricting snakes can give very servere lacerations when they bite, the sewing kit and scalpel blade would be useful in tidying and sewing up the wound. Cordage would be useful in the process of Pressure immobilisation From Wikipedia Pressure immobilization is not appropriate for cytotoxic bites such as those of most vipers,[10][11][12] but is highly effective against neurotoxic venoms such as those of most elapids.[13][14][15] Developed by Struan Sutherland in 1978,[16] the object of pressure immobilization is to contain venom within a bitten limb and prevent it from moving through the lymphatic system to the vital organs in the body core. This therapy has two components: pressure to prevent lymphatic drainage, and immobilization of the bitten limb to prevent the pumping action of the skeletal muscles. Pressure is preferably applied with an elastic bandage, but any cloth will do in an emergency. Bandaging begins two to four inches above the bite (i.e. between the bite and the heart), winding around in overlapping turns and moving up towards the heart, then back down over the bite and past it towards the hand or foot. Then the limb must be held immobile: not used, and if possible held with a splint or sling. The bandage should be about as tight as when strapping a sprained ankle. It must not cut off blood flow, or even be uncomfortable; if it is uncomfortable, the patient will unconsciously flex the limb, defeating the immobilization portion of the therapy. The location of the bite should be clearly marked on the outside of the bandages. Some peripheral edema is an expected consequence of this process.
Apply pressure immobilization as quickly as possible; if you wait until symptoms become noticeable you will have missed the best time for treatment. Once a pressure bandage has been applied, it should not be removed until the patient has reached a medical professional. The combination of pressure and immobilization can contain venom so effectively that no symptoms are visible for more than twenty-four hours, giving the illusion of a dry bite. But this is only a delay; removing the bandage releases that venom into the patient's system with rapid and possibly fatal consequences.
Painkillers are useful to control pain and therefore reduce stress in the casualty making it easier to determine if the bite was dry or not and antibiotics are useful to fight infection caused by bacteria being introduced sub dermally due to deep puncture wounds.
Edited by Am_Fear_Liath_Mor (10/16/07 01:27 AM)
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#108796 - 10/16/07 02:12 AM
Re: Concerning the “Altoids Tin Survival Kit”
[Re: Susan]
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Geezer
Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
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As with most actors, he is a little guy. Probably left handed too...
_________________________
OBG
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#108805 - 10/16/07 03:38 AM
Re: Concerning the “Altoids Tin Survival Kit”
[Re: TQS]
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Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
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First, I love the use of the royal we. People think I'm arrogant, but you might have just taken the lead. That's just down right pompous. Second, I don't think anyone ever accused a PSK of being a fully equipped kit unless they are intentionally trying to dismiss something whose role they don't understand. It is not intended as a full kit, but as a supplement, in much the way a pocket knife can not replace a fixed blade of robust design. Anything that can fit in the pocket or miniaturised, be is a pocket knife, a pocket calculator, a laptop computer or a PSK, is a compromise favoring the skill of the user. Forgetting that, or forcing a tool to be more than it is, is not a negative reflection on the tool or it's designer, but it's user. By your reasoning and requirements we can not fit "all the items necessary to a true survival kit" into any portable package, as you seem to be implying that a kit should also contain a sufficiency of air, water, gravity, fuel, shelter, food, medical support (with trained medical staff), et al. Where would you draw the limit? A PSK is at the top end about 20 cubic inches; at the other end, I don't bother with packs over 3500 cubic inches. You carry the gear that you can fit within the limits of what you are willing to carry. Personally, I find the claim that a PSK is too little to be a very interesting statement from someone who once said that most PSKs had too many items. Which is it? Too many items, or not enough? You can't have both.
_________________________
-IronRaven
When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.
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#108808 - 10/16/07 04:35 AM
Re: Concerning the “Altoids Tin Survival Kit”
[Re: OldBaldGuy]
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Geezer
Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
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It's been raining, and I'm waiting for someone to call to tell me when I start training on my new job. Yes, I could be doing housework, but then I would have to do it all over again next year, so why bother? Besides, I don't want to wear out the vacuum.  Sue
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#108810 - 10/16/07 05:36 AM
Re: Concerning the “Altoids Tin Survival Kit”
[Re: Susan]
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Journeyman
Registered: 12/02/02
Posts: 86
Loc: Phx, AZ
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Who is "We". Voices?
Call it whatever you want, you have to admit: Something is better than nothing.
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#108824 - 10/16/07 02:05 PM
Re: Concerning the “Altoids Tin Survival Kit”
[Re: TQS]
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Addict
Registered: 05/06/04
Posts: 604
Loc: Manhattan
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While I haven't played around with the Altoids Tin Kits in few years, I have to agree with people who think they can be useful. After all, a button compass, mini-bic, wire saw, whistle, and small locking pocket knife (like the GERBER SLT for instance) will easily fit in an Altoids Tin. Right there it gives the potential for navigation, shelter, fire and signalling. I won't even fall back on "its better then nothing", simply put you'll always have it on you and it increases your chances for survival exponentially. Does it serve all survival needs, no, but with five very small tools, being hypothermic and lost are admirably taken care of. And that, more then anything, is the basics of most survival situations.
_________________________
A gentleman should always be able to break his fast in the manner of a gentleman where so ever he may find himself.--Good Omens
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#108826 - 10/16/07 02:28 PM
Re: Concerning the “Altoids Tin Survival Kit”
[Re: AROTC]
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Hacksaw
Unregistered
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My pocket kit is essentially an Altoid tin kit without the Altoid tin..but I don't refer to my kit as a 'survival kit'. It's just my pocket kit. I think that's appropriate seeing how I use my kit on a regular basis but rarely for survival situations.
The irony is that I usually use mine to help others who are completely unprepared for everyday life rather than myself.
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