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#108406 - 10/11/07 09:38 PM Banter about LED s and lights for kits
AlexSchira Offline
Stranger

Registered: 04/14/07
Posts: 12
I've been tinkering around with some lights lately testing run times and usability for my kits. Not just for me, few friends want me to make kits for them for various outdoors sports. Came to some conclusions I should have picked up on a while ago.

No one will use a headlamp unless it's a survival situation with no other people around.
Photon Freedoms should be standard-issue. Not for the military, as in, you're born, the doctor says what gender you are and sticks a Freedom in your hand.
Some monochrome LEDs might be greatly underrated for emergency use.
Far too many people think those knock-off Shakelights actually work.

A few months ago I bought a yellow-beam Photon for the heck of it. Used it a couple times to look at the beam, kept it in a pack. Two days ago I decided to test the runtime on Photons using 2032s. I threw both the fresh-cell yellow and a heavily worn out red one I've been using for a year in a Pelican case, wrote down the hour and minute they were turned on, and left them alone. Two days later as of tonight at 7:30, the already half-brightness red will still turn on when clicked and fade away gradually as the cell wears down. Not enough to use it for anything, but after near daily use for a year, two days of light is still something.
The yellow is still at full brightness, with good enough projection to move around at night, inside the case it makes a yellow lantern effect in a dark room.

Forty eight hours without dimming...In a long-term lock-in situation, that's amazing for a coin cell. Spacing at six hours a night for hiking somewhere or twelve hours of darkness for an all-nighter, this test portion alone would keep you going between four and eight days. I've heard the 120 hour mark bounced around about the 2032 cells, I'm starting to believe that. For a full-sized light it'd be something, for a hardcore piece of jewelry like a Photon it's unheard of.

Mr. Ritter making the ETS Freedom was what got me into them in the first place, if they ever switch to these newly announced brighter LEDs I'd give a few as gifts. I'm pretty sure from another forum the new LEDs are being added in without changing the packaging, not sure if they're sprint-runs or are constantly produced and would be upgraded.

And now, headlamps...I'm rather proud of my green Tikka Plus with Adapt system, recommending the high quality but bare-bones Princeton Tec Aurora to the people asking me about kits and general outdoors work. Or at the very least for the indoors types, the Energizer cheapies from Target. Not one person has readily accepted keeping around a headlamp in a kit, a pack, a car, or even a house in one case. If an episode of 24 came out with Jack wearing a headlamp all the time, society would turn on its heels as it usually does with celebrities and gadgets, but for now they're just another obscure device of embarrassment.

The same people I tried talking into owning, not flaunting a headlamp mostly swore by those imitations of 'shake-lights'. Walgreens sells a knock-off for five bucks with plain, printless packaging that probably comes off the back of a truck. I can see the coin cells right through the clear case, yet they insist on the shaking motion as a necessity. All it takes is one infomercial.

Currently planning a full-scale, documented test of the various LED colors of Photons using 2032 cells, everything from white to purple set to run until they bust in a tamper-proof case possibly in a chilled environment to mix things up a bit. If the topic ever comes up again I will keep a chart around of the tested run times using cells from the same pack. From there, field testing of the long-runners to figure out what is usable and what isn't. I'm sure red will triumph, but red lights by nature are so dim the military trusted them not to be noticed from a distance. I'm looking for longest running color that can actually be used.


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#108407 - 10/11/07 09:58 PM Re: Banter about LED s and lights for kits [Re: AlexSchira]
Hacksaw
Unregistered


Embarrassment? I'm all function first, form later...unless I'm cold.

I keep a Gerber Infinity Ultra in my pocket 24/7 (I've never liked the prospect of locating a coin battery for my EDC light should the battery fail at the least opportune moment...AAs are everywhere). Sometimes I even put my Petzl e+Lite on my belt...especially if I'm camping or hiking since I use it all the time in that setting.

Good to see somebody is testing the longevity of these lights. I'll be curious to see the results of your full scale test.

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#108412 - 10/11/07 10:48 PM Re: Banter about LED s and lights for kits [Re: AlexSchira]
philip Offline
Addict

Registered: 09/19/05
Posts: 639
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
I have two problems with LED headlamps.

First, I've fried chicken at night in a white LED light, and you can't tell if it's done because it always looks white and uncooked. That's not the case with incandescent bulbs. White LEDs screw up colors, and that _can_ be a problem.

Second, I can't tell you how aggravating it is to have some jerk wearing a headlamp walk up and try to talk to you with his high beam right in your eyes. And I can't tell you how often that happens with knuckleheads wearing headlamps. If I'm going to talk to someone while I'm wearing a headlamp, I either turn it off or pull it down so it's hanging around my neck and shining the the ground at our feet.

I have a few LED headlamps, and I use them for walking around at night looking for the porta potty and such. I use a headlamp with a focusing incandescent lamp if I'm going to be doing something. All my headlamps use either AAA or AA batteries, which I have bricks of where ever I may be. There's only been one time I was somewhere I couldn't buy AAs, and that was because the ship that was supposed to be bringing them in forgot them or something - they weren't on board. A local resident gave me some, though.

Your mileage will vary, which is fine by me.

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#108415 - 10/11/07 11:02 PM Re: Banter about LED s and lights for kits [Re: AlexSchira]
Arney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: AlexSchira
Currently planning a full-scale, documented test of the various LED colors of Photons using 2032 cells, everything from white to purple...

Do the Photons other than red, yellow, and orange operate on a single 2032? I only own an amber, so I don't know from experience. I believe the cyan one can, but the cyan and the other colors are all meant to run on 2x2016 cells. The cyan will be dimmer than normal, but I'm not sure if, say, a blue one will even work with the lower voltage of just one cell.

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#108416 - 10/11/07 11:05 PM Re: Banter about LED s and lights for kits [Re: Arney]
AlexSchira Offline
Stranger

Registered: 04/14/07
Posts: 12
I understand red, yellow, orange. cyan, white and possibly green/blue should work to an extent. I understand that the original Photons were all issued with a 2032, the modders came up with the two cell hotwire and eventually the company did, too.

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#108420 - 10/12/07 12:39 AM Re: Banter about LED s and lights for kits [Re: AlexSchira]
Raspy Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/08/04
Posts: 351
Loc: Centre Hall Pa
Alex what you are seeing through the clear case are not coin cell batteries. They are capacitors. They hold a charge from the shaking like a battery. The better ones usually have larger capacity caps.
_________________________
When in danger or in doubt
run in circles scream and shout
RAH

And always remember TANSTAAFL

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#108432 - 10/12/07 03:30 AM Re: Banter about LED s and lights for kits [Re: Raspy]
Tjin Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/08/02
Posts: 1821
Originally Posted By: Raspy
Alex what you are seeing through the clear case are not coin cell batteries. They are capacitors. They hold a charge from the shaking like a battery. The better ones usually have larger capacity caps.


well there are "fake shakelight" for sale these days too, which are just coincell battery LED's, with a big lump of plastic and metal attached to it.
_________________________


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#108447 - 10/12/07 04:55 AM Re: Banter about LED s and lights for kits [Re: Tjin]
JohnN Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 10/10/01
Posts: 966
Loc: Seattle, WA

Note the coin cell lights do not run 48 hours w/o dimming. They just dim slowly such that you don't notice them dimming.

Which isn't to say they are not handy little devices.

I really like the Infinity Ultra as Hacksaw notes, and load them with a lithium cell for better runtime, longer shelf life and better weight.

Headlamps rule.

Bottom line is LED + lithium batteries + multi level output is hard to beat.

And they just keep getting better and better... :-)

-john

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#108449 - 10/12/07 05:54 AM Re: Banter about LED s and lights for kits [Re: AlexSchira]
LED Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/01/05
Posts: 1474
Originally Posted By: AlexSchira

Currently planning a full-scale, documented test of the various LED colors of Photons using 2032 cells, everything from white to purple set to run until they bust in a tamper-proof case possibly in a chilled environment to mix things up a bit. If the topic ever comes up again I will keep a chart around of the tested run times using cells from the same pack. From there, field testing of the long-runners to figure out what is usable and what isn't. I'm sure red will triumph, but red lights by nature are so dim the military trusted them not to be noticed from a distance. I'm looking for longest running color that can actually be used.


I'd be interested in a %50 power mode runtime test. To me the output is almost the same as full power, and in a survival situation the extra runtime could be a lifesaver.

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#108460 - 10/12/07 01:56 PM Re: Banter about LED s and lights for kits [Re: Raspy]
Arney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: Raspy
...what you are seeing through the clear case are not coin cell batteries. They are capacitors...

Fake shake lights are quite common, especially on EBay. Here's a warning from the Wisconsin Department of Ag, Trade, and Consumer Protection about the problem. These lights are powered by coin cells and they do not generate any electricity by induction.

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#108461 - 10/12/07 02:07 PM Re: Banter about LED s and lights for kits [Re: AlexSchira]
Arney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
If you ever get around to doing this comparison between the different colored LED's, note that different colors have different voltage requirements. Red, orange, yellow have the lowest minimum input voltage (just over 2V, I believe) while the other colors require just over 3V. As a given coin cell gets run down, its voltage will gradually drop and you'll reach a point where the cell can't provide the minimum voltage. So, that cell might light up a red Photon but not a blue, even though you're using exactly the same, run down cell in both Photons. That's why some colors use two cells while other colors still come with just use one cell.

Based on the voltage requirements, I think you're pretty much guranteed that the red, orange, yellow LED's will outlast the others if they are all powered by a single 2032.

But! Not to discourage you from doing some of your own hands-on experimenting! Maybe my educated guess isn't quite correct in real world use. Have at it, Alex! laugh

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#108463 - 10/12/07 02:35 PM Re: Banter about LED s and lights for kits [Re: Arney]
Hacksaw
Unregistered


There are good products out there like this. My general rule of thumb is that if it isn't a 'Freeplay' device, it's not worth my money.

This is the most recent product I've seen. I've seen devices with Freeplay technology in the form of flashlights, radios, and cellphone chargers...they've been around a while.



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#108479 - 10/12/07 04:55 PM Re: Banter about LED s and lights for kits [Re: JohnN]
bmo Offline
Newbie

Registered: 09/12/07
Posts: 40
I have to agree with JohnN and Hacksaw regarding the Gerber Infinity. I really like this light. The lithium batteries certainly cut down the weight and extend the runtime, but even with a standard (or a depleted) AA this is a nice really light to have on your person. The unit is also legitimately waterproof. The finish on the aluminum case is pretty easily worn when the light is in your pocket with other items. Strictly a cosmetic issue. Also, I was concerned about the exposed bulb (albeit recessed), however, that has not proven to be an issue at all even when carried in a pocket with small hard objects.

Alex, I really look forward to the results of your runtime tests in a chilled environment.

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#108501 - 10/12/07 08:43 PM Re: Banter about LED s and lights for kits [Re: bmo]
AlexSchira Offline
Stranger

Registered: 04/14/07
Posts: 12
By God, I completely forgot the power save mode...Very good catch there! Now that would make things interesting!

Factors I want to work in, now.

The power save mode, thanks again for reminding me
Cold environment to simulate less than ideal conditions, thinking of keeping it in the fridge or even a snow-drift if I get the lights going in the winter. May run a room temperature test on a whim later on.
All using 2032 cell, various colors. If things die quickly on some colors, may substitute two 2016s in future tests.
Simply lighting up is not enough, must provide functional illumination.
Straight run through, if it goes out it's out of the running.
Further testing of colors to determine if the longer running ones are even usable in the actual field.
Constant on, no strobe modes.

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#109374 - 10/21/07 01:37 PM Re: Banter about LED s and lights for kits [Re: AlexSchira]
Brangdon Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/12/04
Posts: 1204
Loc: Nottingham, UK
Could you try at least one white 2x2016 for comparison, since that is what the majority of people will use?

Are you aware of the runtime tests done on the Candlepower forums? They would be interested in your results too.
_________________________
Quality is addictive.

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