Hello Group,

As program manager for Navy life rafts I will be revising our survival equipment pack to update it some to hopefully make it more effective and easier to support logistics wise.

Currently our Mark 7 25-person life raft is a militarized off-the-shelf (MOTS) USCG/SOLAS approved life raft design. The Navy is not required to have a life raft that meets all USCG/SOLAS regs, however we use them as general guidelines.

The Mk-7 is constructed of polyurethane coated nylon with RF welded seam construction. It is inflated by a breathable air inflation system which will fully inflate the life raft in less than 30 seconds in -22 degree F temperature. USCG/SOLAS rafts are required to inflate in less than three minutes at that temperature. We currently have the life rafts on a five-year service interval, with a 0.005% failure to inflate rate after the five-year certification cycle.



Now for the nitty gritty:

The current survival equipment is as follows:

First Aid Kit: contains various wound dressings for combat related injuries, sunscreen (30-spf), lip balm, dimenhydrinate (anti-seasickness meds), aspirin, as well as wire splint, arm sling, eye first aid kit, surgical scissors, foreceps, etc.

Flare kit: 6 Mk-124 day/night flares, 2 sets (14 cartridges) Mk-79 pen gun type flares.

Other Signalling Devices: whistle, sea dye marker, glass signal mirror, and 2 or 3 D-cell flashlight w/ spare batteries and bulbs(ASTM F-1014).

Other Survival Gear: fishing kit, 12 ea. emergency blankets, standard military pocket knife, bailer, sponges, 2 sets of leak clamps (3 sizes of clamps in a set), spare sea anchor, manual air pump, paddles (2 ea.), 2-qt Water storage bags (2 ea.), pressure relief valve retainer.

Sustenance: 25 each 3-day food packets (USCG approved), 25 each 0.5 liter graduated nalgene bottle of water, and military version of the PUR Survivor-35 manual reverse osmosis desalinator (MROD).


Contemplated Changes

Replace pyrotechnic flare kit with non-pyro devices: could possibly include green laser flare, hand-held strobe, and improved LED flashlight (SF G2 LED or similar). All or most devices would run off of CR123A 3-volt lithium batteries or AA lithium batteries.

Add PLB w/ GPS to two rafts per ship: would increase ability to alert rescuers of abandon ship scenario and provide a location fix. One raft port and one starboard could be equipped with PLB.


In adding/changing equipment I have to consider: cost, size, weight, volume, ability to work anytime during 5-year maint. cycle, and ability to easily logistically support and not create new problems with HAZMAT. It is preferable that any new equipment be manufactured in the U.S. or Canada.

If you want more details of a particular item, let me know.

NOTE: This is an informal discussion for this group, and it is to remain here as an informal discussion. This should not migrate to any other sort of publication or be construed in any way other than as a chat amongst friends.

Regards,

Tom A.

"...Replace pyrotechnic flare kit with non-pyro devices..."

Space available, how about changing "replace" to "supplement"??? Why get rid of a proven signaling device???

Is everything redundantly waterproof?
Remeber the Survivorman "Lost at sea" episode?
The survival kit was full of water pretty quickly.

Good question...

For several reasons.

Logistics: Flares are considered ammunition, and as such requires special handling, transport, and storage. A life raft facility can easily exceed its rated explosive storage capacity when servicing rafts from a large population ship. It's a reoccuring expense as the flares have to be periodically replaced. Non-pyro signals just use batteries. After initial acquisition, the cost is a few bucks for new batteries for subsequent servicing.

Usage: If a military vessel is sunk during combat, there is a high probability of fuel on the water. A flare burning at 3500 F degrees can ignite the fuel if it were to come in contact with it. They also pose a hazard to the raft and survivors if misused or if they malfunction.

Training: It's difficult to provide hands-on training with flares due to the expense and hazard. Non-pyro kits can be distributed to all the ships and training commands such the sailors can train with them, making them more effective and safe to use.

Regards,

Tom A.

Yes, if an item is not already in a watertight container, it is heat sealed into an 8 mil polyethylene pouch with a desiccant pack.

Most critical items are also equipped with a lanyard and clip to secure to the raft life lines so a wave doesn't wash it all overboard.

Tom

One thing you may want to look at is replacing or supplementing the sea dye marker with a RescueStreamer. Doug gives a pretty compelling review of these vs. the sea dye markers in his writings, and it does seem like a large advancement in numerous perspectives.

Is the water factory bottled or are they just manually filled with tap water? If so, do you sterilize it?

Thanks for the suggestion.
We're already looking at the strobe illuminated version. The plain non-illuminated streamer won't add much more visibility from the air as the bright orange canopy on our 25-person rafts already is fairly easy to find. Our 50-person Mark-8 life raft even more so.

Rescue Streamer has a newer streamer with an LED illuminated light baton that will automatically activate at night and turn-off during the day. It's very bright and flashes SOS in Morse code. It's a pretty cool rig, definitely worthy of consideration.

The plain streamer is more effective on small life rafts which have little visible footprint on the ocean surface.

When my FY08 funding for our signal test program arrives, we will be testing a variety of strobes and other signals to try and establish some baseline performance data to help us determine what criteria should be used to select candidate devices.

Regards,

Tom

The water is factory bottled and is sterile. We've conducted tests of the water at various ages up to ten years and found no biological contaminants and GC mass spectrometer tests show volatile organics (from the plastic bottle) to be below measurable levels. As it is, we replace the water at every servicing.

Regards,

Tom

How about replacing/supplementing:

the standard military pocket knife with a decent multi-tool

the sponges with one or more micro-fiber towels

the wire splint for a SAM splint

non-aspirin pain/anti-inflammatory meds

duct tape


Pete

Thanks Pete,

The multi-tool probably isn't a bad idea, but how much more utility will it really provide on a life raft over the existing knife? What's the probability that at least one of the survivors would already have one?

I'll have to look into the micro-fiber towels and SAM splint.

Non-aspirin med probably would be a good idea. I'll have to contact BUMED to see if there are any shelf-life considerations with acetaminophen, ibruprofen, or naproxen. Aspirin is just less effective if it's old, not dangerous. I'd have to ensure the other wouldn't become dangerous if they're old.

Good ideas, keep them coming...

Tom

Back in the day, when I was stationed at the Coast Guard's boot camp in Cape May, NJ, we would let recruits practice/familiarize themselves with life rafts by inflating a decomissioned 25-man life raft that had been taken out of service. Then the staff would, naturally, play with the "toys". In my experience with many, many out-of-date (some of them well over 5 years past their recertification date) the only problem I recall is dead batteries. Everything else, including the water was usable. So you guys already produce a great product. The switch to CR123s is a good idea.

I would, however, second the suggestions made by paramedicpete, except to suggest keeping the sponges. It's easier to bail that last bit of salt water out of the raft with a sponge. I would also add some sort of medication for chafing and chapping. Constant exposure to salt water combined with the chafing of the raft, even for a couple of hours, is really hard on the skin, especially the elbows and knees.

Keep up the great work.

That's after sitting for 10 years. Okay, NOW can we stop the paranoia about chemicals leeching from water bottles?

-Blast

In using CR123's, essentially they are only being stored in the life raft for five years. There should be two to three years of shelf-life and most of the charge remaining on the batteries when removed. We could be using up to 15,000 of those batteries a year.

My hope and plan is to be able to reintroduce the batteries in the stock system for sale at the cost of shipping and handling. Perhaps have them put into 100 packs or something. Then the guys in the field would have a supply of good batteries for mere pennies a piece to use in their weapons and tactical flashlights.

It would save them some money, and we would not have to deal with disposing of the batteries. 15,000 batteries is probably a drop in the bucket of what's being used, but the cumulative savings can add up.

My ultimate goal is to increase the survivability of the crew, reduce maintenance costs, and reduce HAZMAT.

Tom

As long as they are HDPE.

I missed adding some stainless steel wire.

I can think of a dozen or more uses for the multi-tool, especially the pliers and various screwdrivers.

I would add a couple of simple hats with wide brims and rudimentary sunglasses. At least a couple per raft so those standing watch could more effectively and safely get out from under the canopy and see what is going on.

The hat could be any design that would store compactly and keep the sun off the head and shield the face and neck. A light color and broad brim would be ideal in sunny climates.

The sunglasses could be the simple dark, one-piece, polarized units that are stamped out of single sheet of dark plastic. These are often seen as give-away glasses at opthalmology clinics. Being a single piece of plastic and quite flat when not being worn a few pairs could be slipped in virtually any kit.

You need someone to keep watch if for no other reason than to maintain a sense of purpose and to know when it is best to use the limited supply of flares and markers. Trying to keep watch over water without a decent hat and sunglasses in the tropics is just about futile. The sun bakes your brain and the glare blinds you. Stare into the glare enough and you can seriously harm the eyes. Polarized glasses would also be helpful when fishing because they allow you to see beneath the surface.

Another consideration would be to have a supply of simple light colored bandannas or triangular bandages available. These can be rigged as simple head covers, shields to keep the sun off the neck or face, expedient bandages or tourniquets, lashings for equipment, cleaning cloths, sponges, place mat, or tied into a small sack to help organize small gear.

A cloth as large as a typical non-sterile triangle bandage, about $.25 in bulk, has lots of uses. In my first-aid kit I have replaced some of the gauze rolls and general bandaging materials with a couple of triangle bandages. In a pinch a triangular bandage can still be used as a compress or wrap but it has a lot more potential uses.

Hi TomApple

Inclusion of a SOLAS Radar reflector may be beneficial.

http://www.sailgb.com/p/solas_radar_reflector_for_lifeboats_and_liferafts/

a liferaft drogue

http://www.sailgb.com/p/liferaft_drogue_mca/

and Canon image stablization binolculars

http://www.amazon.com/Canon-10x42-Stabilization-Waterproof-Binoculars/dp/B0007W4IW2

and for each man a Blizzard bag or Survival Jacket

http://www.blizzardsurvival.com/product.php/101/blizzard_survival_jacket

Rather than a survival blanket.

"2 or 3 D-cell flashlight w/ spare batteries and bulbs(ASTM F-1014)."

This is old technology. You could replace this with a lighter, much longer lasting l.e.d. flashlight with hi/lo functions and a strobe. Or a headlamp with the same options.

A "D" cell LED flashlight that was regulated (AFAIK Maglite D cell LED flashlights are not regulated) probably wouldn't need spare batteries or bulbs.

I'd replace the flashlights with the Underwater Kinetics 4xAA eLED, which is waterproof to 10 meters.

Tom and everybody,

I've been giving this some thought. Now, I know nothing about liferafts, ocean survival or the Navy. So my ideas are very general and not well informed.

Given that:

1. What is your goal with the life rafts? How many people under what conditions for how many days? Everything else flows from that.

2. Can you talk to people who have acutally used the rafts? Survivors can tell you things that we will never think of. What works/ what doesn't. Find a few dozen sailors who used a raft and ask them their opinions.

3. Supplement to #2. Can you get a bunch of folks and a pool, even for a day, to test gear? You will discover some of your basic assumptions are wrong (And how to fix them, I hope.) In marketing terms; a focus group.

4. Is the above pictured raft the best design? Why not oval? Why a 6' peak (if it is) and not 7' or 5'? Why orange? Is green better? etc.

5. What does your current kit do about hypothermia?

6.What happens to each piece of gear when soaked in salt water? does it still function?

7. Can you order gear to have all interchangeable batteries? Is there a hand charger of some sort provided? What is the cost of a small re-charging solar panel?

8. What gear does each life vest include?

More ideas if you need them,

teacher

PS I do creativity/ marketing for a living, but this is the first time for a liferaft.

There are space type blankets that can be cut into strips that function well as sunglasses. When the aluminized material is close to your eyes, you can see through it. The survival manual mentions this.

There are some cloth triangle bandages in the first aid kit.

Tom

The ships are equipped with enough life rafts to accommodate 110% of the maximum possible manning. In all probability rescue would occur in less than three days, unless we're talking about a nuclear holocaust.



I've studied several life raft survival situations, including the use of modern inflatables by the Argentines during the Falklands War when the General Belgrano was sunk. The biggest problem for life raft survivors is hypothermia.



We test gear all the time. One motto on the wall is "One test is worth a thousand expert opinions."



It's a proven design which meets USCG/SOLAS requirements.



There are 12 survival (space blankets) versus the 3 carried by USCG/SOLAS approved rafts.



Yes, everything still works when wet.



My hope is to have all equipment powered by CR123 batteries with adequate spares supplied.




The new float coats have a man overboard transponder and beacon.

Regards,

Tom

Another nod to the Blizzard Survival Blankets, they seem to be used widely by other the armed forces, including in the prevention or treatment of hypothermia:
http://www.blizzardsurvival.com/section.php/2/582bad659b926643f881f6e7b5c317f8

I suspect you could get 25 of these into less space than what I think from your intro is 12 regular survival blankets would take up. (or maybe not now that I see they are 'just' space blankets ;-) )

1) Every raft should have a PLB/Locator beacon. Two only is not acceptable because you have no way of determining which rafts will survive. A ship is more likely to be lost to the sea rather than enemy action. Therefor it follows that not equipping every raft with a PLB will have unacceptable political and public consequences.
2) Use AMK heat sheets for the survival blankets.
3) The rafts should meet or exceed USCG/SOLAS regs irrespective of your Navy's exceptions.
4) All devices should run off AA lithium batteries. I would not personally be happy about having two types of batteries for survival and signaling equipment.
5) By standard military pocket knife do you mean the 1940's Calli mus designed so called U.S. Army or Marine knife? A one handed opening blunt nosed dingy knife might be a better choice.
6) Chopping/cutting board?

Tom is there anyway to bond in the canopy a military 25 watt solar panel with waterproof connections (sealed cells with shorting protection) as a means to charge batteries and supply power to GPS, radios or what have you? he idea of emergency power for those long floats. In rough seas I know is useless but when the weather calms it can be a benefit especially if you don't know the condition of your batteries sitting for 5 years. Plus it could power an internal light in the canopy plus strobes and a continuous running epirb. An Acr external powered constant running Epirb.
Just an idea but definitely go with the strobe rescue streamer.

Also a back up solar still
http://www.sailgb.com/p/aquamate_solar_still/



Flexible solar panel


http://store.altenergystore.com/Solar-Pa...lar-Panel/p706/

OR

http://www.midsummerenergy.co.uk/buy_sol...olar_panel.html[size:17pt][/size]

It is not practical or correct to put a PLB in every raft, because too many signals in close proximity would mask each other. I've talked to the SARSAT folks already. The thought of 250+ PLBs going off at once if an aircraft carrier went down makes them shudder. Even a dozen or so in close proximity can be problematic. The probability that both PLB rafts on opposite sides of the ship from each other would be damaged before deployment is low. Plus there other military communication devices that would assist in alert and detection. There is a slight liability that an inadvertant activation of a PLB in a life raft could give away the ship's location to the world during a tactical situation. It would be vital that those PLB rafts could be quickly located, opened and deactivated. Too many rafts to choose from could complicate that process.

Politics don't enter the equipment selection, but I have to make rational, feasible choices based on critical test and evaluation, and product research. I have to be a good custodian of the tax payers' money too.



I've recently received some samples and they are very nice and strong. Definitely worthy of consideration



Our life rafts exceed USCG and SOLAR rafts regs in almost every area. Considering we have over 9000 life rafts in service, the performance and reliability is probably unmatched by any other life raft in the world. Our major departure from USCG/SOLAS is that we have a five-year maintenance cycle versus annual inspection. We have more stringent test criteria for our life rafts than required by USCG/SOLAS. At servicing every life raft is test inflated with a pull-force gauge attached to the sea painter. Our current failure rate after a five-year maintenance cycle is 0.005%. The Coast Guard uses them on their ships.



Ideally I'd want one battery type too. It would most likely be the CR123A rather than the AA lithium.



Yes, it's the Camillus stainless steel knife, almost unchanged since WWII. I'm kind of nostalgic about that knife. I think its kind of cool we still use it. There is also a blunt/hooked knife used for cutting the sea painter. It's great for opening the plastic bags.



Hmmm, they could use the bottom of the first aid box.


Thanks for your thoughts,

Tom

I hope this doesn't sound too frivolous, but I'm wondering if there is space for a couple decks of cards or some hand puzzles. I thinking of something that would distract the occupants of the rafts while they wait for rescue. Sitting around looking at each other under that canopy doesn't sound like a lot of fun. I realize that these rafts are serious business, but I'm thinking of something that might help the occupants cope with anxiety and stress. I confess that I am one of those weirdos that believes that survival is about mindset and attitude as well as gear.

Hi TomApple

Is there any facility or technology you are looking at which has the ability to boil water to make hot warming drinks to counter hypothermia. Would a hanging candle system be feasable such as those manufactured by UCO.



This would give some heat and light within the raft and would be a great moral booster in a cold wet dark environment. Would chemical heating pads be a viable addition.

Nostalgia has its limits. I still have the Camillus slipjoint knife I was issued back in 1971, what a POS. I keep it only for nostagia, I would never consider it to be a serious tool. Besides not locking, the blade won't hold a sharp edge. I suppose it's okay as a scraping tool and the bottle opener works, but even the lowly Victorinox Swiss Army Knife Pioneer is a better knife for real use.

Being practical though, why include a knife in the kit at all. Every other sailor has a better folder they carry all the time.

Definitely standardize batteries, but why CR123A? Those are good for the high output Surefire tactical lights, especially the non-LED models. But for long life, that high output isn't the way to go. The polycarbonate plastic construction, LED's and AA (alkaline or lithium) batteries are ideal in a survival situation.

$.02

Hi Tom
Haven't had a chance to get the fleet yet, but I did get to play on the Mark-7 during training last summer.

Some of the ideas presented here are great: I really like the idea of some sort of solar panel to help recharge electronics. Also, is there an internal light? Even during the day, it got really dark once the overhead cover was drawn shut. Something, even a basic red light, would be nice. I assume this would be a huge budgetary headache, so perhaps any crank-powerd lights for inside use?

The boat gets pretty warm with 20 people crowded into it, and everyone started sinking to the center. Which was nice and warm, minus the water we'd pulled in while boarding. Perhaps something can be done to help sailors hold onto the perimeter? Either small loops, carabiners, etc?

You know, having one knife means it's bound to go overboard. A second, or even third, would be nice. And, yes, something a little more practical than the Camillus would be nice as well.

Maybe more 2-qt water storage bags? There's going to be a LOT of thirsty people after the second or third day. What is there in the way of repair equipment with the desalination pump?

Thanks for your (and your co-workers') hard work. I'm sure it's a PITA to restock, repair, update, upkeep, revamp, and test these boats. Personally, though, I'm glad we have them on all the ships!

MRE heaters would make much more sense for cooking -- just add water. I'm not sure having a flame on a raft at sea is a wise idea, melting nylon and all that.

There is an internal light which can be switched off during the day. We are looking at some new lighting systems using LEDs which will burn for a much longer time. The current system is rated for about 12 hours or so total burn time IAW SOLAS.



There are internal life lines around the inside perimeter.



OK, I'll guess I should revisit the knife.



One reason we use bottled water is that the containers can be reused to store water from the desalinator which will produce up to 35 gallons per day, far in excess of the minimum required for 25 people. In theory, if the desalinator in one raft didn't work, a desalinator from another raft could adequately produce water for both of them. The desalinators have undergone rigorous testing and the likelihood of failure in a short period of time is very remote.

As far as I know, we're the only ones to put any sort of extra water storage bags in a life raft.

We use bottled water because pouch water leaked too much from low temperature extremes and the the drop of the life raft into water. All survival gear must survive the impact of the life raft in its container dropping from a height of 65 feet into the water. In tests we lost up to 30% of the pouch water. The bottled water is much more rugged, can be rationed easier with its graduated bottle, and the bottle can be resealed and refilled.

Best of luck to you when you get to the fleet.

Regards,

Tom

Some of the very good non-pyro signal devices like the green laser flare use CR123's as well as some of the raft lighting systems we're looking at. It's easier to find a good LED flashlight with good qualities using a CR123 battery, than it is to find certain types of strobes and signals in AA. CR123s are relatively cheap in quantity and it's easy to pack lots of extras in a small space.

Our existing flashlights are hideously outdated. Though I can get over 40 hours of burn time out of a pair of five year old alkaline D-cells (if they're not corroded), it's a feeble glim of light. At the very least it would be better to put in a Terra-Lux Ministar LED replacement bulb than what we have now, but my plan is to completely replace the flashlight.

Tom

No flame is not good, especially if there is fuel around. If the MRE heater somehow got damp prematurely, could it damage the raft material? I'd have to look at the implications of storing something like that inside a raft for five years. I see the point of wanting to heat liquid for hypothermia victims though.

We were thinking that using body heat to warm the bottled water would be an option. When I was in the Army and first used the MRE's there were no chemical heaters. We would warm them some by putting them in our pockets to help decongeal the grease.

The food ration can be crumbled into the water to make a sweet drink to treat hypothermia if the person is conscious. Body heat could them warm the drink so it would not cool the victim

Tom

Good thread. As a retired Navy type I was able to use this gear in training (aviation gear, not identical but close) and carried some of it daily for years. It was good gear back in the day but it definitely needs to be updated. One of the reasons we considered it good though was because it ALWAYS worked. I don't remember a piece of gear ever failing.

The question of whether they ever test it and does it work when wet. . . when I first read those questions I almost choked from laughing, but then I thought a bit and wondered about some of the really early gear that was for show. Remember the life boats and "flotation" vests on Titantic, not quite enough to go around, all show. The gear now is tested hard. The gear we used in training was the same piece of gear they used the week prior and they'd use it again for the next class. It was used hard week after week after week. That was the same gear issued in the fleet.

There was a pilot who went in the water very near an aircraft carrier. Everyone on deck could see him floating as could the helo crew that would pick him up. But he still lit off every piece of signaling gear he had, that's what they're for, why waste them -- they all worked. Confidence builder.

Thanks Tom.

Some of the gear I had has already been replaced, I bought some of it cheap on eBay and ya'know what, it all works.

Hi Tom,

How about some Cyalume lightsticks? There cheap enough and might help to conserve the battery life of the flashlights.

Mike
LifeView

Mike,

What's the shelf-life on those things? I recall those being looked at in the 1990's, but for some reason they were rejected. I'll have to dig through the test reports to see if a reason was given not to use those.

Tom

I'd recheck chem-lights in general since they come in various wavelengths which go from white, to green to red and IR. They run cool, don't use any batteries and their shelf life is very long. Maybe it's a cold or high (how cold/how high) temperature issue.

Tom,
The rated life is 4 years, but they are probably good for more.
Mike

Chem lights are old tech. They suck. With good compact LED flashlights and lithium batteries, really no need for them anymore for most general lighting uses. They have a relatively short shelf life and and brighter ones expire in as little as 18 months, and then must be disposed of, performance drops way, way down in cold temps, are really, rally messy if leak, stains are permanent, must be kept from being exposed to air in their special packaging and if it is punctured, they are toast. High pressure packing often bursts the packing or the tube., so they must be kept in a hard case inside such packing, no off switch, 360 degree light requires special holder for directional use, even then they put out only modest amounts of light not focused at all... I could go on and on. All around a tech that was great in its time, now irrelevant for general lighting uses. In those rare instances where chem light type lighting would be useful, one of the Krill or LED versions are much better. They last longer, are more reliable and can be switched on and off as required.

If you decide to include lighting devices that utilize AA batteries, you may want to consider KRILL lights, as an alternative to the chem.-lights.

Kriana Corporation - KRILL Lights

Pete

How about the Spyderco Atlantic Salt Knife



details at,

http://www.knivesplus.com/spyderco-knife-salt-sp-c89pyl.html

I'm SO glad that someone mentioned the Rescue Streamer...I couldn't remember what it was called!

Does anyone know...the LED version Tom referred to, is that the $1500 bit that's on the front page of the website? Or possibly a military only item?

Forgive my ignorance of such things, but how much value does a whistle have in the middle of an ocean? Not going to help a helo crew, or make a sound over a ship. For the size and weight, why not include it, but how much practical application would there be?

Just looked at Glo Toobs when the Krill lights were mentioned. While the Glo Toobs are much smaller (possibly negating the usefulness for this application) the new Glo Toob Lithium models run on 123's.

As an aside, I have found that chem lights on a break away lanyard are ideal for keeping track of young children playing at the campground after dark

Hey, Tom. I just wanted to ask if you could do us, especially me, a favor and let us know what all your kit will include when you make your decisions and finish up. I’ve already learned quite a bit from you and this thread, such as the availability of a RescueStreamer with lights and the fact that Green Laser Flares are NVG compatible. (I was actually going to post a warning about green laser NVG compatibility, but I read Doug’s review again which said that it was only a prototype version that was incompatible. Apparently production units work fine with NVGs.) I would really appreciate seeing what your final verdicts are and why you chose them once the time comes around.

Thanks in advance!

I certainly will. There is a lot to think about, and some testing to do down the road as well. I have already gained some useful insights into some of the gear that should be updated.

It's tempting to want to put every conceivable gadget in the raft to make it a bit better, but I have to balance a lot of factors in making any changes. If the survival equipment starts taking up a lot more volume, it makes it more difficult to pack which can directly effect the inflation reliability of the raft.

In dealing with about 9000+ life rafts, I have to be prudent on the additional costs incurred in putting new or more equipment inside. I like to exceed USCG/SOLAS regs were possible, but it gets hard to justify going higher if it costs a fortune to do so.

Sometimes I have to ask the question like, "is it better to have a better knife or a better flashlight?" or things to that effect.

It's very similar to decisions you make when you buy a car. Do you want or can you afford the safest car on the market, or do you settle for one that's good enough? Do you carry the highest levels of insurance for your person and property?

Please keep any suggestions or ideas coming.

Regards,

Tom

I would replace the old Camillus with something more along the lines of a Victorinox or even just a decent one handed folder such as a Spyderco Salt etc. Have you thought about maybe adding a Photon or Inova microlight they are lite weight and can last for a very long time heck a gerber infinity even though it runs off a single AA instead of a cr123 will last forever off the one AA it's small and waterproof it doesnt create alot of light but you dont need it search buildings and stuff you need it to help illuminate a fairly small enclosed area. One question does the kit include waterproof sunblock, it helps to keep the skin oiled and prevent sunburn and would also might prevent salt water boils. I'd be intrested in seeing a detailed list of whats in the fishing kit and whats in the fist aid kit.

If hypothermia is a main concern, why not include either:

1. 25 heatsheets or emergency bivvy bags
2. 25 el cheapo mylar blankets (See if anyone makes a jumbo size)
3. 25 'contractor' size garbage bags

teach

( #2 would cost about $10 per raft in bulk, maybe less.)

Tom;

I'm a mathematician by training, and an IT security consultant by profession, and most of what I know about survival comes from reading this forum, so you've already had far more knowledgeable folks than me comment on your selections. I guess the only suggestion I could come up with that hasn't been given already is that the two life rafts with PLBs aboard should be separated as widely as possible, to reduce the risk that both will be destroyed by the same event. Alternatively, they should be in the locations that are statistically the most likely to safely deploy from, if such statistics exist. (For example, a life raft in the bow of the ship might not be accessible if there is a fire in the forward part, whereas a life raft amidships would probably be accessible from at least one direction.)

Mathematically, there's a thing called the law of diminishing returns, which I'm sure you're aware of. Basically, it states that if you can save 100 lives by spending a million dollars on safety features, you will save maybe 150 lives by spending two million, 175 by spending three million, etc. Some people argue that if spending an additional ten million dollars will save even one life, it's worth it, but where do you draw the line?

I always figured that the cost of a human life should be measured in other human lives. If your "safety measures" will save 1 life, but will be just as likely to kill 2 SAR personnel, then it's worth than a waste of taxpayers' money. Your example of putting a PLB on every life raft becoming a safety hazard when they all go off at once, for example. In the Sydney-Hobart Yacht Race disaster, several yachts were evacuated with the emergency beacons still transmitting, which resulted in multiple SAR crews investigating the same yacht, long after its crew had been rescued.

So if anyone criticizes you for not putting in their favourite piece of gear, don't lose sight of the trade-off in safety that results from adding "just one more thing".

I was discussing this off-list with a member earlier today. We now put in 12 space type blankets. We were discussing the possibility of replacing them with a dozen extra large HeatSheets with the idea that two people could share them, thus sharing body heat too. Then add another bulkier blanket that had a thin layer of insulation to be used to help treat the worst hypothermia casualty. Something that would help them regenerate their own heat and not lose any more. We may be repackaging the desalinator, thus making space for the bulkier heatsheets and the insulated blanket.

Regards,

Tom

Tom, I'm glad you had chosen the military PUR Survivor 35 desalination, just don't exclude that, it's one of the most critical elements besides signaling and hypothermia. I've been stranded out at sea without an Epirb (made that mistake only once) and if it wasn't for a rescue tube and a dive alert, I wouldn't be here. Even with the rescue tube deployed it was the dive alert that got there attention to the tube. Floating around in the sea for a while is definably no fun and I had a strobe as well and was wondering what I was going to do if the batteries went dead. Now with todays locator's, there are quicker rescues and they may not need solar cells but I always keep them in the event as batteries fail. If you do go with AA batteries, use the Eneloop's, they have the longest storage time.

The reason I mention solar is I even have a 12.5 KW generator in the back with a 1.5 W solar charger from Harbor Freight for $8 and every year I go and check to see if it will crank and it fires right up. It keeps the battery topped off so I'm not screwed in a hurricane. I then incorporated 20 watt solar cells in my BOB and it powers every piece of electronics I use and all the batteries. And here's a video link that explains why solar is almost as valuable as food and water in todays military.
Ok, I'll stop my rant and raven about solar now, I just wanted you to think putting a small panel on board if you plan on using any electronics or batteries on board. And you would only need to do that if a rescue exceeded 48 hours, if not then it's not needed. But things happen....... Anyway my 2 bit's. I'll shut up now.

Video
http://www.globalsolar.com/index.php?opt...id=114recharges

http://www.powerfilmsolar.com/products/military/armytents/index.htm

I wouldn't expect any upgrades in the knife.EBAY not withstanding, on hand supplies of the utility knife will keep them in stores until ; pilfered, lost, borrowed, broken,stolen. Nautical sheepsfoot blades are a cultural and maritime regulatory artifact of days when a Captain could stitch up slash wounds but not stab wounds. A pointed blade is usefull at sea and the risk of puncturing the raft no greater than with any number of other kit items. A refugee from warring Yugoslavia doomed herself and several people puncturing their liferaft with her treasured high heels. So keep a pointed blade regardless of model, just prohibit navy personel from wearing high heals. It wouldn't hurt if somebody could give even a cursory pass on a diamond during inspection. They can be miserably dull to start.Ditto the (In)famous TRACON fishing kit. I would suggest, again if simple man hours allow a visual inspection and retaping of the contents. Of the 7 unopened kits I acquired, 2 had visible rust on the inexpensive hooks FROM THE ASSEMBLER'S FINGERPRINTS STILL VISIBLE, and one a conglomerate and useless mess of rust and mildew. There is utterly no dedicated unit to grip or coil the fishing line. Every other kit seems to have a simple plastic sheet for this. The BLIZZARD BAGS are superior to mere space blankets. And while I was able to egress from mine in a deep end pool jump, a weak or injured crewman may not in the event of capsizing.The jackets or cellular blankets may be a viable option if unit cost and storage are acceptable. Liferafts have two temperatures; hot or cold.

My experience with the chemical warmers is that they have a one season shelf life. Put some in a kit & expect to replace them next fall. It might help to store them in their own hard case & don't fold the packaging. Apparently moisture leaks through the package and the chemicals slowly go bad. If its soft, its still good. Hard ones have gone dead.

They are great for getting a couple when they may/will be used such as late fall hiking or ball games.

Tom, first let me thank you for letting us toss this about. We haven't seen a thread this good in a while. Second, I've got friends and family in the Navy, so thank you.

I saw you were thinking about the 2-person Heatsheet, so there goes my first thought. Most of my other thoughts have been been addressed (LEDs, SAM splints), except for two.

How are the PLBs triggered? Manually once people are aboard, or automatically once the raft is deployed? For some of the smaller ships, I'd agree that one each port and starboard is sufficient, but for the larger vessels (carriers, the various amphibious ships) is it enough? Possibly one each fore and aft to each side for the big ships, just becuase of the numbers of rafts and the risk of them getting scattered. When we have lost troop ships and carrier, even if we have to go back 60 years, how badly scattered were the life rafts, this might not be a concern?

Also, how big are the current aircrew survival radios, and are they cost feasible? It might not be as much an issue as far as communicating with aircraft, but with other surface assets and particularly among this fleet of little orange rafts. For example, I know small ships only have a corpsman and even for the really big ships you still have a limited medical staff- raft-to-raft communication might be needed there. Or is it just a non-issue?

Personally, I'm not a fan of the knife in question, but it works. The odds of needing it are fairly low, so I don't see it as cost efficient at this time to replace them with new knives so long as they open, haven't rotted out and are reasonably sharp.

As for the idea of the MRE heaters, I'd say no. Last time I checked, they still released hydrogen gas when wet. I'm not sure that goes with the less HAZMAT requirement on equipment carried on the deck of a ship.

Can't help with the hazard but on the expense side could you dispose of decommissioned stock by using it for training?

The PLBs we're looking at are manual activation. We do not want any possibility of an accidental activation while the raft is still aboard ship, thus broadcasting the ship's position to the world. Not good in a tactical situation. We also want the life raft survivors to be able to assess the situation and determine if the PLB's should even be activated. If there are already rescue folks in sight, then the PLB could complicate the rescue.

Some sailors will be wearing float coats which will have transmitters broadcasting man-overboard indicators (MOBI). So there would be other devices broadcasting signals as well.

We instruct the sailors to tie their life rafts together to create a more stable platform, to be more visible, and to help support any damaged life rafts. Most of the large population ships are changing to the Mark-8 50-person life raft, which is large and visible from quite a distance. It would take quite a storm to scatter them enough to make it difficult to find the other rafts from that side of the ship.

Regards,

Tom

Hypothermia is a downward spiral. Even mildly hypothermic victims are not capable of keeping themselves warm with just a insulated blanket. An additional heat input is required to reheat the hypothermia victim. This is going to probably be one of your main challanges in terms of survival equipment aboard a liferaft. A warm sugary drink (hot chocolate is best) and a set of dry clothes is required together with an insulated blanket or bivi bag which is large enough to accommadate 2 people - the hypothermia victim and the fit crew member who is helping to provide some additional warming.

Perhaps you could include in your survival package a specific hypothermia kit consisting of the following.

Blizzard Survival Tube.

Vaude Stormy Compact Hanging Stove with a Primus Aluminium Gas Cartridge.

Sigg Oval Bottle with neoprene bottle cover which allows the bottle to be used as a hot water bottle.

Smartube with Sigg Bottle adapter allows the hyperthermia victim to sip hot liquids whilst the sigg bottle warms the victim.

A pair of Neoprene Gloves.

Hot chocolate or hot soup sachets.

Dry clothes set. Vacuum packed Snugpak Softie top and bottoms.

All in a Ortlieb type Dry bag with grab handle (heavy duty).

Not to be harsh but has anyone really tried to deploy these rafts in less than ideal conditions and to get, keep, them together for mutual support? A major problem with the General Belgrano case was the rafts were scattered by wind and waves as soon as they were inflated because they have no means of propulsion or attitude control. In a storm situation during a yacht race these units were not successful. Most were blown away, destroyed or capsized before they could be boarded. The crews that fared the best didn't try to use their rafts.

Made only worse by the simple fact that these units are virtually impossible to maneuver. If one was to be blown even slightly away from the others during deployment about the only way your going to get it reconnected to the group would be to use a throwing line or send over a swimmer with it. The two crews could then close the distance by sweating the line. Even this is profoundly limited as a hundred feet or so is the limits of a throwing line and an unprotected swimmer in cold water isn't going to go far. I also doubt any raft will have a line longer than a few hundred feet. Once outside a little less than twice that range, one line from each boat, nothing could be done.

Even if the ship was to be just a short distance cross-wind of land the sailors using these rafts would either have to swim for it and risk drowning by exhaustion or hypothermia or accept their fate of being blown away from relative safety.

Some number of civilian sailboaters have cited this lack of maneuverability as the main reason for not carrying a raft. Their plan is to use a dinghy or tender as their escape. What these alternatives lack in quick and fail-safe deployment and compact/lightweight storage is made up by the ability to maneuver. This ability is seen as a major advantage in that once deployed they have some ability to stay together and/or actively seek landfall or rescue.

At a recent visit to a harbor I noted that the British warships all had modern self-righting and maneuverable lifeboats of some sort in evidence. I don't know if these were in great enough numbers for the entire crew but it was interesting to see the differences between the US Navy with rows of life raft pods that leaves them as passive victims and the Brits, with their more practical naval traditions and nautical mindset, with boats that can be actively sailed out of danger and toward rescue.

I realize this is a bit outside of the central thrust of the topic, equipping existing rafts, but are you aware of any research in finding some answer better than these glorified kiddie floats? Perhaps a hybrid between a north sea lifeboat and a raft. Something that could be deployed without blowing away and that would give the sailors an active role on their fate without being excessively heavy, bulky or expensive.

The Royal Navy has a 200 percent Liferaft capacity rather than 110 percent. But then again the Royal Navy does not have ships with over 5000 crew as in the large battlegroup aircraft carriers operated by the US Navy.

According to what I've been told by cold water survival folks in the Navy med research branch, you don't warm a hypothermia victim using body heat from another person. The result is that you warm the victim so slowly, that the surface tissues warm just enough to cause the blood vessels to open up which causes the warm blood in the body core to migrate to the colder extremities and surface layers, thus actually cooling the victim further.

As I've been instructed, the best bet in a life raft situation is to wrap the person well, insulate if possible, and if conscious, administer warm sweet liquid. From the information provided to me by BUMED, hypothermia victims can recover their body heat as soon as heat loss is stopped.

It simply is not practical to pack some sort of warming device in raft. Several posts here about the MRE heater pretty well explains that methods. Putting a compressed flammable gas stove in there creates a whole host of new problems and hazards.

We recommend that some of the food bar be crumbled into the water and the water warmed by body heat of another survivor and then administered to the victim. The food bar is very high in carbs and is sweet.

Putting too much bulky survival gear in the raft starts affecting the inflation reliability. If the raft doesn't inflate, then the gear is moot.

Regards,

Tom

Can anyone name the oldest liferaft mentioned in literature? The design parameters issued 'from above' must have been pretty good, one of our first modern battleships, BB-3 USS Oregon's architect using those exact measurements in it's design. Oregon was mostly remembered for it's superb ridability in rough seas.It was stripped and welded up as a floating ammunition dump in WW2 in the Pacific. It broke free from it's berth in Guam during a Typhoon that sank manned and manuevering ships and was found floating 500 nautical miles away unscathed. The idea of a manueverable, powered liferaft or dinghy comes from the same mindset as a lost hiker 'walking out.' Captain Bligh or Shakelton aside,survival resources are better designed around 'hugging a wave' and staying put near your last known position for rescuers.Many ships in fact will launch their ship's boats if possible and these can act as 'herders.' As for the RN and it's traditions? Many of our modern lifeboat ideas came from a lowly RAF rank named Shaw after witnessing a bungled launching of lifeboats. He had another name, Colonel T.E. Lawrence, late of the army.

In the case of the General Belgrano, those who boarded the rafts survived. The sea anchor (drogue) does give the raft attitude control to keep its bow into the wind. The rafts are also packed with a spare sea anchor to provide additional drag if desired. There are requirements for USCG/SOLAS raft designs that they are able to be maneuvered to some degree with the paddles provided. Plus there are designated marshalling boats on every ship help draw the rafts together. The life rafts we're using are a good bit bigger and better equipped than most yachting rafts.

You've seen some British ships with the totally enclosed lifeboats (TEL). Could you imagine trying to equip an aircraft carrier with TEL's for over 5000 people? I doubt the Royal Navy is providing even 100% TEL coverage for their large surface combatants. Even cruise ships don't provide that level of coverage with lifeboats. They always make up the difference with inflatables. The company that provides the U.S. Navy with inflatable life rafts, also provides rafts to the RN, as it's a British owned company.

I think describing the life rafts as "glorified kiddie floats" grossly understates their value as a life-saving tool. Granted, they are not a perfect solution, but they do seem to work for most of the cruise lines which have on occasion been obliged to use them.

Cheers,

Tom

I'm not sure about that, but I can give some info on early inflatables.

1855 designs by Charles Goodyear




Earliest known USN inflatable life raft design used onboard ironclad monitors during the American Civil War

It's possible that this raft design may have been used on board the sloop of war, USS Constellation, in the 1850's.


Life raft which sailed from New York to England in 1866.

This raft voyage is also mentioned in literature, The Voyage Alone in the Yawl Rob Roy by John MacGregor.

Regards,

Tom

"Can anyone name the oldest liferaft mentioned in literature? The design parameters issued 'from above' must have been pretty good, one of our first modern battleships, BB-3 USS Oregon's architect using those exact measurements in it's design."

Noah's Ark? But the measurements are off.
And God said unto Noah, . . . Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch. And this [is the fashion] which thou shalt make it [of]: The length of the ark [shall be] three hundred cubits, the breadth of it fifty cubits, and the height of it thirty cubits. A window shalt thou make to the ark, and in a cubit shalt thou finish it above; and the door of the ark shalt thou set in the side thereof; [with] lower, second, and third [stories] shalt thou make it. " (Gen. 6:13-16)

A cubit is the distance between an adult's elbow and tip of the finger, generally 18-inches. Most Hebrew scholars believe the cubit to have been between 17½ -21½ inches long. This means that the ark would have been 450 feet long, 75 feet wide and 45 feet high if the 18 inch cubit was used. If a larger cubit was used it would have been proportionately longer.

USS Oregon Length: 348 feet Beam: 69 feet 3 nches Mean draft: 24 feet

I think you may need to go back to the folks at the Navy med research branch and get some more feedback on treating hypothermic victims. The best way to treat hypothermia non intrusively is to warm the air the hypothermia victim is breathing in. Having a second person together with the hot water bottle in something like the Blizzard Tube (an effective vapour barrier) is to warm the air inside the Tube itself. The warm moist air generated by the fit healthy crew member will then warm the victims lungs/thoracic part of the body and will help speed the warming of the thermoregulatory part of the brain called the hypothalamus. This will more than compensate for the effects of dilating peripheral blood vessels.
Getting the victim out of cold wet clothing is just as important and this will dramatically reduce the heat loss due to the wet clothing. Rapping the victim in a simple space type blanket will just not work with air temperatures below 10-15 degrees Celsius.
This is why all UK arctic warfare unit members are instructed to keep a spare set of clothes in a dry bag in case of immersion in icy water.

As you have mentioned a hot drink does not look possible due to the HAZMAT regulations despite the fact that gas cartridge failure rates are extremely low compared even to lithium battery incidents. Could the hypothetical hypothermia kits be deployed separately from the deployment of the life rafts?

A good guide to treating hypothermic casualties is available at http://www.hypothermia.org/Hypothermia_Ed_pdf/Alaska-Cold-Injuries.pdf

Interesting to see your comment about stripping wet clothes as I always thought the same and was suprised to read this on the Blizzard site:

"RAF Mountain Rescue’s New CASWRAP System

The RAF Mountain Rescue Service (MRS) has developed a new system to treat and prevent hypothermia while evacuating casualties. Called CASWRAP, it is now being used by all personnel in the UK. Instead of stripping wet clothes from casualties, teams are now trained to wrap them immediately in a Blizzard Survival Bag or Blanket.

More Insulation
They cover this with a conventional sleeping bag for more insulation, then add a second Blizzard Survival Bag or Blanket as an outer layer. When a conventional bag is added as an intermediate layer, even casualties who are soaked warm up rapidly and are fully protected from wind and rain."

Although I suspect is may be more to do with the lack of a controlled enviroment on a mountainside with potentially serious windchill as they also have this on another page, so it seems opinions vary:

"US Army medics are now trained to wrap casualties in Blizzard Survival Blankets as their first response to preventing hypothermia in trauma cases - even in hot weather.

Tens of thousands of Blizzard Survival Blankets are being incorporated in a new Hypothermia Prevention and Management Kit™ (HPMK NSN# 6515-01-532-8056), developed by US military medical equipment specialists North American Rescue Products (www.narescue.com). The HPMK further enhances the Blizzard Survival Blanket's effectiveness with the addition of a self-heating pad and a thermal skull cap.

The Blizzard Survival Blanket is recommended as the first choice for keeping casualties warm by the 2007 Prehospital Trauma Life Support Military Version Sixth Edition (PHTLS Military Version 6E), produced by the globally respected National Association of Emergency Medical Technicians (NAEMT).

PHTLS says medics' initial response to trauma cases should be: “After any immediate life-threatening issues are addressed, wet clothes should be replaced with dry clothes, if possible, and the casualty should be wrapped in a Blizzard Survival Blanket.”

Hypothermia in trauma cases occurs regardless of ambient temperature, PHTLS says, and prevention is far easier than correcting it: so stopping heat loss should begin as soon as possible after wounding.

The guide places the Blizzard Survival Blanket first in a ‘hierarchical equipment list for prevention and treatment of hypothermia'."

I think your right about opinions varying. I think the new system the RAF mountain rescue has developed is that they recognise that most victims on UK mountains are not completely wetted through and that on balance the clothing the casaulty is wearing will help in reducing the heat loss in addition to the Blizzard Survival bag being employed. (I suspect most casualties are generally winter casualties who generally wear good to high specification wind and waterproof breathable clothing) Further unnecessary cooling when removing the clothing would be painful (due to the windchill) and unnecessary timely for the casualty when they are now realistically within a few hours away from Hospital Treatment. This does make sense.

The casualty who has been recovered from the water will be completely wetted though (unless in a dry suit) and in this case will be out of the wind i.e inside the covered life raft. Recovery of the casualty by SAR may take many days. Getting the hypothermia casualty out of the wet clothing as soon as physically possible and into dry insulating clothing and then the Blizzard Tube would dramatically reduce the heat loss from the casualty.

The new Hypothermia Prevention and Management Kit™ (HPMK NSN# 6515-01-532-8056) looks good. Again the chemical heatpack maybe a no go for the liferaft application and maybe to bulky and heavy for this application. There appears to be no easy answers for this problem. Crew survival training looks likely to be a very important factor.

Yep ! that's about the only usage I ever found for these chem lights !!

I used to keep a bunch of chem lights in various kits, including hiking and car kits.
9 times out of 10, they were dead when I needed them, even when expiration date was not reached !
No way to know if they are still good or not ; you have to try them and find out !
(when you try them, they usually works ! But when you really need one... bad luck ! They are all dead)

If you want lights in that range of brightness, KRILL lights are OK (use them with Lithium AA batteries).
Just be sure not to store the batteries inside the lights : the weight of the batteries + various "shock testing" while stored, will deform internal parts and the light will no longer be useable.


YMMV + IMHO ...

Most of the PLB designs I've seen look like they'd have a pretty low risk of accidental activation. And if you're going down... odds are, someone knows where you are. We generally don't lose ships to bad weather any more. But tactical considerations were something I was leaving out, for that reason.

I probably shouldn't ask, but how rough of weather is needed to sink a life raft? Either the 25- or 50-man variety. Has anyone tried to "gather the flock" as it were under weather, say, 80% as bad? Although, based on the size, once the weather cleared out, they should be spotable from satellite and high altitude air. Not much in nature is that color orange.

bv

I have a Camillus and it will hold a sharp edge. That means sharp enough to shave the hairs off the back of my hand.

You have to completely remove and reprofile the original edge to do it, but it is doable.

I have also very lightly applied a punch to the rivet's. That stiffens up the action slightly. It now won't close on your fingers under normal use.


I E.D.C. it quite a lot in situations where carrying a locking blade is unwise/illegal.

Locking blades illegal? That's crazy!

"...Even cruise ships don't provide that level of coverage with lifeboats..."

Don't tell me that, we are going on a cruise next year! From my experience with our last cruise, the manditory lifeboat drill the first day mentions nothing about inflatables...

I have very little experience with lightsticks myself (I do know that you can activate one, punch a small hole in the thing, and write a glowing message on some handy surface {like the Sgts car, but you didn't hear that from me}), but apparently their package lists a four year shelf life...

OBG, you are my new hero! ROFL

Rumor has it that the Sgt was not amused. But then they never have been well known for their sense of humor...

That's England.

...or why not include a heat sheet with every life vest??

Another vote for the AMK Heatsheet Bivvy to replace the mylar space blankets.

As a bag, it could keep survivors drier in a raft, or if too many survivors without enough room on the rafts, they can be handed over to survivors in the water to use as an anti-shark bag.

I'm looking at replacing the space blankets with the large HeatSheet blankets and adding one or two Blizzard blankets for the worst cases.

We'll see how it all fits in the survival equipment bag.

Tom A.

Interesting thread. As a USN Sailor myself please allow me to add my .02 cents.

Most of my shipmates do not carry a pocket knife, MAYBE a multitool, or a flashlight. Add a good knife or three, the Spyderco SALT series would be nice.

Please go with LED for the flashlight and make it two per raft.

Our uniforms are cotton, some form of heat or insulation would almost be required. Some kind of body suit?

Hang the expense, leave the pyrotechnics and ADD the rescue laser flare. And no glowsticks, go with the Krill or the glo-toob.

Any chance of a rescue radio along the lines of the old Gertrudes?

And do the leak clamps actually work? Has some cold, scared, tired kid tried to use them in the dark in the water?

As has already been suggested it would also be nice to have a chance to play with a life raft. I would think it would have to be done in boot.In 9 years I have had no more than short "Pull this line to inflate the raft." instructions.

And as a practical note..with any Navy ship that went down today I think the issue would be short term survival not long term.

Thanks for your efforts to make sure that my Shipmates and I are well equipped and safe!

Thanks for your service.



I find that terribly depressing... :-(



They work very well. They are pretty easy to install. Like with most things, training would be helpful, as would illustrated instructions, instead of the text only. Here's how they work, FYI:



Instructions can be found here: http://www.equipped.org/pp/pic233.htm

The problem, such as it is, is that having to enlarge a small hole to get the bottom clamp through is somewhat counter-intuitive when water is coming in, or air is going out, and you want to stop the leak. <g> For small holes the screw-in rubber plugs can be somewhat quicker, but are not as permanent and reliable a seal.

It probably will be a high power, long life LED flashlight. One candidate for a strobe beacon also can double as a flashlight.



The issue with pyrotechnics is not the expense, but their effectiveness, as opposed to the hazard in using them and also the logistical problems is dealing with them. We'd replace it with more than just a laser flare but with strobes and an improved beacon system on the raft itself.



We're looking toward using some of the new PLB's. The MOBI (man overboard indicator)system in the float coats will also help with location.



Doug amply illustrates the use of the clamps below. A life raft with some of those on there has passed a four hour inflation test, as well as a raft with no holes. They work very well.



I'm working with the Safety Center on more pervasive and comprehensive training materials for shipboard reinforcement training.



Correct, that is why I'm looking more at hypothermia treatment and prevention. Also, Thank you for your service to our country.

I've been program manager for life rafts since this past July, so I'm working on testing and evaluating improvements toward eventual implementation as quickly as possible. Fortunately I have the support of my superiors and hopefully we can implement the improvements within a year.

I'll be in Portsmouth this week at NNSY training the life raft facility there.


Regards,

Tom Apple
Combatant Craft Div.