Don't know about this one. I wish them luck, they will need it in more ways then one....

Bare Wilderness is two average guys who are going to go into the bush for 30 days with nothing but a knife and the clothes on their backs. They are not bringing a lighter, tent, sleeping bag, pots or pans, only a knife. They are going in late September or early October in northern Manitoba where the weather can do anything at that time. They only have a few months to learn the skills they will need to survive.

Over the next few months they will be posting videos of what they have learned, so you can learn with them.

Their goal is to not only to survive for 30 days but also be able to live relatively comfortably. In order to accomplish this they will need to learn a lot of skills they do not have prior to there departure.

We shall see.

And may they rest in peace.

Hope they make it. What was that trolls name a while back who wanted to do this same thing with his buddies???

I think his name was "Ziggy"....what those guys are doing, doesn't sound too smart...

Sounds Very interesting to me. I often tell the wife, I would love to see Les Stroud do a longer term survival type of show. Ive seen him go a few shows with almost nothing to eat. I would really like to see what he would do with 30 days or so.

Several years ago I became interested in wolves after rereading Farley Mowat.I collected the classic books, a now rare LP of wolf vocalisations narrated by Robert Redford and met this local nut who posed for Playboy in a contest to use her winnings( she didn't) to finance a rare cat and wolf rescue center ( such facilities anything but rare in SOCAL.) My mother bought me this kitsch ceramic of 'mother wolf and cub' for my birthday instead of the knife I hinted at.I think that statue was just released as 'mother coyote and cub.'And then one day the local neurotic german Shepherd tried to bite my coat from behind and got drop kicked for his efforts. I went in, let out a long sigh, bagged all my wolf stuff and donated it to the library. The survival community can support just so many gurus, and after a point it becomes the pathetic comics of mutant salamanders I saw when teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles became popular. I'm going to see the new movie based on INTO THE WILD instead. I'm going to buy a big tub of popcorn, some gummy worms and a 32 oz Doctor Pepper- no rice.

Sean and Brad in jeans in Manitoba during the onset of winter with just a knife

I wish them luck but I am extremely sceptical they will survive 30 days based on the information on their website. That is a lot to learn in a short time even for people comfortable with the outdoors. Just learning which plants are good to eat and medicate is a lifelong study. From what I've learned from Mors Korchanski, a person could live off the land in the boreal forest and not eat any meat whatsoever and yet they quote mostly meat items as their food.

Looking at their lean-to shelters - that won't provide any kind of decent shelter for more than a few hours -- no bough bed or anything.

It can be done, I've met a few very capable people who could do it but I just don't have the confidence these guys can. For people who are members to the web site you can vote on their success probability. Personally, I think they will be dragging their butts back to civilization after a few days.

BTW, cotton jeans in the wilderness??? Don't they know cotton kills?

I'm still trying to get a firm grip on what their "game" really is. Smells like creative entrepreneurship to me.

Probably they're trying to leverage a deal for a television series or at least a series of "documentaries" for broadcast. And this is their "pilot" -- except with an added real-time component of video etc. as they go, to generate interest.

The pay-to-get-first-info is a way to pay down some expenses, and get a marketing list for later.

The number of hits on their website will be used as an indication of interest, which is valuable marketing information. So is a lot of the login stuff, even for media, which gives them a marketing base.

If they generate enough buzz/hype/etc., they might just make a buck at it.

Nice thing is, they can't really lose as long as they gather interesting footage. If they suffer hardship and bug out early, it's compelling (people love to watch other people's disasters). If they make it, it's a triumph of man against wild (news coverage). If one of them gets eaten by a bear, that's a total marketing windfall (worldwide coverage) -- tough luck for the guy who gets eaten, that's showbiz.

i'm still trying to track down the film "man of the wilderness"..made in Canada in the later 80's..this guy and
his buddy were dropped off by chopper with just the clothes
on their back..the busted rocks for tools--made fire--
put together a shelter..they were out for months..
this was done as part of his PhD..they kept track of
everything they ate--and they had a small scale to weigh
all the food they found..mosty berrys..this was long before
the survival shows and was the real thing

Yeah, I was thinking of him to when I first read about this on BF. *shrugs* I'm not going to have to drag their butts out if something goes wrong, so it might turn into something amusing.

I cringe anytime I hear of amatuers who want to go out into the big bad woods and try out the newest thing that they saw Bear or Les do on the latest episode. I just imagine The Blair Witch Project on steroids. Wilderness Survival is called that for a reason, going out with a set plan (i.e., how long, where, what season, etc.) has very little to do with survival. How many factors are really known in a survival situation? Anybody can go out and say that they are going to survive in a given area, for a certain amount of time, and during a certain time of year. That seems to me to be a very stupid and minimal supplies camping trip.

Have you looked through their "tips" on survival? I'm specifically referring to their advice on making fire in the wilderness.

The three methods they list are

1. Tin containing char cloth, plus striker and rock.

This is method is of course effective, but to make charcloth you need fire already. Also, making the charcloth probably requires the use of a tin. Since they're going into the wilderness with just a knife, (which would only fulfill the striker requirement)this method is only partially effective. Plus you still need to find a rock to use (quartz or flint).

2. Bottom of pop can.

If you can find one, seeing as you only went out into the wilderness with just a knife.

3. Fire with ice

Oh come on! Are these guys serious? I know this has been done before, but it's not a serious survival method for creating fire.

Can DNA be determined from bear poop?

Still sounds like Ziggy.

Sue

And how are they going to give updates on what they've done so far, for however long they're going to stay there? Will someone go into the bush and check on them or what?

With only a knife I wouldn't even try thirty minutes let alone thirty days!

Looks like they will have a 3rd person with them.

From their website:

We will have our own camara man along.
We hired a cameraman to do a promotion video and we were so impressed with his work we decided to ask him if he would come along with us on our trip and he agreed. It resolved a lot of our problems. Having Chris (Neon) along with us resolved a few of our problems. One was we needed a way to communicate with the outside world if something were to go wrong. The other was we were worried that if we were hungry, tired and wet, the last thing we would want to do is edit and post video. He will be filming and editing and hike out of the bush and drive to the nearest town to upload the video every 3 days. For this reason the video will be delayed 3 days from when it happens to when you can view it. We are leaving on October 5th and the video will start on October 8th.

Does this mean we are cheating?
The cameraman has strict instructions not to help us in any way. He will be staying in a tent away from us. He is also not allowed to eat anywhere near us. I think the worst thing that could happen is smelling bacon frying while we are eating leaves or bugs!!! This is a personal goal for us. We would find no satisfaction in cheating. We will attempt to complete the 30 days completely unassisted.


I checked the weather for most of northen Manitoba for the next few days, the forecast is mostly rain with temps from OC to 7C (32F to 45F).

Anyone want to wager how long these guys last??

"...Anyone want to wager how long these guys last?..."

If you are starting a pool, can I have yesterday???

Canoedogs, I googled this and believe it or not, ended up here!
http://www.equipped.org/andrebio.htm

I'm also going to check out the link to the Primitive Skills Group.

Through early morning fog I see
Visions of the things to be
The pains that are withheld for me
I realise that I can see

That suicide is painless
It brings so many changes
And I can take or leave them if I please

Sorry, sometimes I can't help myself.

M

Misanthrope, I had no idea you were a part of this board. So what's it going to take to get you to Texas in a couple of weeks

... sorry didn't mean to hijack this thread

Alan

I was going to post this; http://dirttime.com/
and tell eveyone to check out the "in our pockets" article because these guys may be able to pull it off.
Then I realized you are probably Alan himself.
If so thanks for the great alcohol stove article a while back in WW.
Bill

I think this will be the main factor in how long these guys last as the weather forecast from 0C to 7C in the rain is perfect hypothermia weather. It will depend on the clothing that they intend on taking with them. If they go dressed in jeans and fleecy tops I would give them just 2-4 days in the cold and rain. Chances are they wouldn't be able to get a fire going and they seem to lack experience in building shelters. Simple open lean-to shelters or A frames probably wouldn't be suitable for the conditions they would expect to encounter. Some thing a little more substaintial would be required such the construction in the first few days of a log cabin or Teepee. A knife is not going to suffice in the constructing of one of these. A proper woodsman axe would make all the difference rather than a knife for medium to long term survival requirements.

Also the low temperatures and moist atmosphere will make fire lighting using friction methods a low probability of success. If they got the fire going they would have to ensure that it didn't go out. This effort will rob them of the time they think they will require to go hunting and fishing. The lack of cordage will make successful hunting and fishing again a low probability (they will probably end up attempting to use Bear Grylls method of throwing a big stick at their game).

Their inability to boil water efficiently by not taking a metal cup or pan will either make them ill or lead to dehydration although they could always improvise rain water collection method if a poncho was part of their everyday clothing.

So if they have the ability to build a substantial shelter in the first few days (depending on the weather breaks) and can get a fire going then they may last 10-14 days before they get to weak from hunger before abandoning their adventure.

If they took a good axe, a firesteel, paracord, a fishing kit and a large metal cup whilst clothed in good insulating and waterproof clothing then I don't see why 30 days would be out of the question. But they would still be suffering in their hole in the dark with an owl.

Bill, yes that be me. glad you liked the stove article. stay tuned for more grat stuff.

Alan Halcon

I am considering acquiring the 8 DVD Plant Walk Series with Mors Kochanski. Do you think it's a good start for learning this stuff? Ovbiously it's not sufficient, one needs real world practice. Did you take a bushcraft class at Karamat?

The plants identified:

Silverweed
Marsh Hedge Nettle
Plantain
Brown Eyed Susan
Yellow Ladies Slipper
Meadow Buttercup
Alpine Bistort
Pink Pussytoes
Cream-Colored Peavine
Purple Vetch or Common Vetch
Canada Thistle
Arrowleaf and Palmated Coltsfoot
Sundew
Round Leaf Orchid
Caraway
Ox-Eye Daisy
Wire Rush
Macoun's Buttercup
Heart-Leaved Alexanders
Blue- Eyed Grass
Common Red Paint Brush
Alpine Milk-Vetch
Bear Root
Western Wood Lily
Wild Lily of the Valley
Smooth Fleabane
Purple Avens
Drummond's Thistle
Mealy Primrose
Balsam Groundsel
Northern Green Bog Orchid
Elephant's- Head
Pink Pyrola
Bunchberry and Fireweed
Death Camus
Wood Betony
Alpine Rock Jasmine
Cusick's Paint-brush
Yellow Columbine
Lance Leaved Stonecrop
Alpine Goldenrod
Monkshood (Mountain)
Moss Campion
Wooly Lousewort
Marsh Valarian
Tall Larkspur
Shooting Star
Field Chickweed
Alpine Pussytoes
Sheep Sorrel
Sweet Grass
Showy Locoweed
Yellow Rattle
Short Beaked Agoseris
Elk Thistle
Yellow Mountain Avens
Common Bladder Campion
Northern Gentian
Richardson's Geranium
Tall Jacob's Ladder
Smooth Blue Beardtongue
Pasture Sagewort
Toad Flax
Tansy
Timothy
Quack Grass
White/Red/Alsike Clover
Stiff Club Moss/Ground Pine and Yarrow
Water Smartweed
Nodding Beggarticks
Rough Hair Grass
Water Arum
Small Fruited Bulrush
Marsh Marigold
Marsh Cinquefoil
Canada Anemone
Calla Lily
Buckbean
Marsh Skullcap
Tule Reed (Great Bulrush)
Giant Burreed
Floating Bog
Common Cattail
Bulbiferous Hemlock
Water Parsnip
Water Hemlock
Rat Root (Sweet Flag)
Cow Parsnip
Western Dock
Blue Columbine
Veiny Meadow Rue
Western Canada Violet
Strawberry
Dewberry,Stinging Nettle
MacKenzie's Hedysarum
Wild Sarsaparilla
Blue Bells
Nodding Onion
Common Greater Burdock
Fringed Aster
Pasture Sage
Rabbitbrush
Goat's Beard
Baby's-Breath
Old Man Sage
Prickly Pear
Curly Cup Gumweed
Tufted White Prairie Aster
Giant Wild Rye Grass
Three Tip Sagebrush
Common Mullein
Crested Wheat Grass
Common Wormwood
Milkweed
Spreading Dogbane
Gromwell or Yellow Puccoon
Wolf Lichen
Pearly Everlasting
Hooded Ladies Tresses
Pink Pyrola
Spotted Knapweed
Bull Thistle
Greater Northern Aster
Skunk Cabbage
Self Heal
False Box
False Hellebore
False Solomon's Seal
Sweet Scented Bedstraw
Eyebright
Wild Catnip and Fairy Bells
Buckbrush
Snowberry
Bracted Honeysuckle
Twining Honeysuckle
High Bush Cranberry
Red Raspberry
Buckbrush
Red Osier Dogwood
Bebb's Willow
Alder
Labrador Tea
Bog Rosemary
Northern Gooseberry
Northern Black Currant
Pin Cherry
Choke Cherry
Saskatoon
Bog Birch
Yellow Witches Broom
White Spruce
Black Spruce
Spruce Resin
Balsam Fir
Balsam Fir Cones
Tamarack
Limber Pine
Western Hemlock
Western Red Cedar
Douglas Maple
Hazelnut
Western Mountain Ash
Engelmann Spruce
Sub Alpine Fir
Dwarf Birch
Shrubby Cinquefoil
Yellow Mountain Heather (Heath)
Hoary Willow
Buffalo Berry
Pink Spirea
White Admiral (butterfly)
Thimble Berry
Red Elderberry
Spiny Wood Fern
Goat's Beard
Bracken Fern
Red Osier Dogwood
White Spruce
Pear-Shaped Puffball
Ponderosa Pine
Black Hawthorn
Oregon Grape
Snowberry
Prickly Rose
White Virgin's Bower
Great Burdock and an identification talk on cones of the Limber Pine
Lodgepole Pine
Jack Pine
Tamarack
Ponderosa Pine
Fir
Balsam Fir
White Spruce
Black Spruce and Engelmann
Aspen
Choke Cherry
Dogbane
Common Juniper
Devil's Club
Baneberry
Paper Birch
Spider
White Poplar/Black Poplar
Aspen Conk
Aspen Stocking Moss
Aspen Burl
Fire Killed Lodgepole Pine
Ants in Lodgepole Pine
Woodland Agaric
Belted Conk
Fairy Stool
Aspen Rough Stem
Field Mushroom
Fluted White Elfin Saddle
Brown Cup
Grasshopper
Smoky Polypore
Aspen Rough Stem
Sketch Pad Fungus
Orange Jelly
Delicious Lactarius
Low Bush Cranberry
Crowberry
Prickly Wild Rose
Mountain Cranberry/Small Bog Cranberry
Hemp Nettle
Red Elderberry/Stinging Elderberry
Wolf Willow

If you have been counting, that's 240 species...

Frankie

Once again, we seem to have a bunch of computer-geek wannabes sitting at their terminals in their air-conditioned offices criticizing two guys who are actually getting off their butts and trying to prove themselves. :-p

I read their bios, and while they aren't experts in survival (or claim not to be), they aren't raw tenderfoots from the big city, either. Both of them seem to have spent a lot of time out of doors and so I imagine they are aware of the type of conditions they will encounter. (Okay, okay - I too have heard too many stories of "experienced outdoorsmen" who went into the woods wearing blue jeans, denim jackets, and sneakers. If that turns out to be the case, I'll rethink their experience quotient.)

What they're doing is somewhat dangerous, but so is climbing Mount Aconcagua, even under optimum conditions, so that in itself is not proof of stupidity and/or insanity.

On the plus side, they have a cameraman who is, presumably, going to be fairly well-equipped, so if hypothermia sets in, there will be food and shelter available. The cameraman may or may not bring a radio and/or cell-phone. I hope he does, and that that's part of their back-up plan.

As for those who keep speculating on "what is their hidden motive?", maybe there really isn't one. They're Canadians, after all. We occasionally still do something foolish just for the sake of seeing if we can do it, without stopping to wonder whether we can sell the screen rights afterward.

Personally, I'm kind of jealous. I hope they do manage to stick it out for the full 30 days, even if they don't end up with a 10-room log cabin and a personal manservant named Friday at the end of it. ;-)

But is being a computer geek and an outdoor adventurer/bushcrafter a mutually exclusive proposition?

Computer geek and sex god, now thats an entirely different proposition.

Well, I guess I take the view that if you want to do it, you do your homework and you go out and do it. I have a lot of respect for that approach, provided you take reasonable precautions and don't put others in harm's way.

On the other hand, if you're doing a shoestring budget, Indie-type promotion, and want to create some buzz, you set up a website with a sexy tag line, take a pro cameraman along with you, sell memberships for ongoing access to your footage, track hits, and see if it takes you somewhere.

Standard practise these days is: if you want to get noticed in documentary or series TV production, don't show up with a good pitch, show up with compelling footage. Then the chequebooks come out, and you get the funding to finish what you have started. Pretty sure that's the end game; or at least, that's the plan to pay the bills for a month off work.

That doesn't mean what we see will be fake; win or lose, it will probably be genuine. And I hope these guys succeed. They have certainly set themselves a tall challenge in an incredibly short time frame (i.e., how to boil water with nothing is the big one for me). If they solve that, they're in the running.

With all honesty, though, the information on their website does not inspire confidence. Perhaps that's what is driving the skeptical comments here.

Anyway, time will tell.

(Broadcasting from somewhere near Edmonton ...)

If you have the chance of taking a course from Mors --- run, not walk to Edmonton this next summer. You won't regret it. Mors and his heir apparents are very capable outdoors people. Actually the back up instructor built a house out of saplings and spruce boughs using just his knife and spent the last year living in it (-40*c et al). He patterned the hut from Mor's supershelter and dragged a cast iron stove inside for heat. All his furniture is made on site from available materials. He is having a hard time convincing his girl friend to spend much time in his wilderness hut though. :-)

I spent only 2 of the 7 days on the course (left due to health problems) but just listening to his wealth of knowledge and experience about the boreal forest was a treat! He's getting up their in age and is only going to be teaching for the next year or two at most. I am hoping that next year I can make it out.

Included is at least one overnight (probably 2) at a nearby lake where you put into practise what you learn (learn your knots well!) You will have minimal food, you can forage if you like. They promised that the students would be working in teams and on their own. Learn your knife and how to sharpen. Learn about primitive fire making.

We went on a short 3-hr walk-a-bout session where Mors talked a mile-a-minute about the native plants and their uses and history. Btw, did you know that if mix blueberry leaves with buffalo berry leaves and brew as a tea you can get a real spacey high??? Or so they tell me... :-)

PM me if you want more details.

It sounds really interesting. I'll think about it. I was thinking maybe the winter course as at least there's no nasty mosquitos and black flies to deal with and it's in the end of February so cold waves are rarer. I could never imagine myself sleeping under a tree at -40º, I don't know if I would be willing to try that. In his video he says if your cold just add sleeping bags...

I have also the video on knots but I think it's not so obvious to follow. I would have prefered that the camera was behind his shoulders or else maybe I could rotate 180º the dvd image if it's possible but I may also get the booklets. Still the videos are useful to get some bits of knowledge that is hard to put in words.

From what they told me, the winter course content is very similar in content to the summer course except for shelter building and clothing differences.

Mors also does his little trick by creating frozen boots that keep his feet warm. Apparently, with 3 pairs of wool socks on his feet, he dips them into an hole in the lake and freezes the outer layer. It takes a few minutes but after that the feet stabilize in temperature and the icy outer "boot" becomes the insulator.

I finally went to see it. I enjoyed the movie very much. I appreciated the soundtrack by Eddie Vedder (the singer of Pearl Jam), it was very relaxing. But instead of gummy worms, I bought gummy bears. I thought it was more appropriate.

Frankie

I took the bushcraft summer course at Karamat a couple of years ago. It was truly awesome. Mors is one of the best instructors I've ever seen at anything, and his wealth of knowledge about the area seemed inexhaustible.

I don't know if he is still teaching the entire course but IMO even if he only makes it out one or two days, it would still be worth the money.

I wanted so badly to take the Winter course but I just wasn't able to make it happen. :-(

Well, I am a closet romantic and always assume the best in people, so maybe I spoke too soon. I missed the photograph of them both wearing blue jeans - that's a scary thing. And they are requesting "donations" for anyone who wants to keep track of their progress. OTOH, they're not likely to get rich off of $10 donations (or maybe they are - there was a college student (Mike Hayes of Rochelle, Illinois) who financed his entire degree by requesting one-cent donations on the internet, according to www.snopes.com.

Oh, well. Good luck to them both anyway.

Closet romantic here, too; but, been around long enough to view such things with a skeptical (not cynical) eye.

I don't object to them financing their adventure with donations and video footage. I do know (having some years in the business) that the camera tends to take over; it must be fed; and that can skew even the most innocent of enterprises.

I sincerely hope they are better prepared than they let on.

And heck, I wouldn't even mind going along (as long as I can tape a sierra cup and a flint to my leg. ;-)

Yes he's well known for this trick. In the video he uses only two layers of socks from CustomWoolenMills, 70% wool 30% mohair. It acts like a wetsuit...

Apparently they've made it through the first 8 days at least. The video for it is up on their website for the Premium members only. If they managed the first few days, then their probability of making it the full 30 days has increased significantly. Best of luck to them.

"...If they managed the first few days, then their probability of making it the full 30 days has increased significantly..."

Maybe, maybe not. Being cold and hungry for a few days does not compare at all with being miserable for 30...

Help is available to them if they give up. The only thing they are really in danger of losing is their pride.
I used to have a buddy who was interested in those kinds of outtings. We went to the wilds of British Columbia for awhile, and had quite a little adventure. We built a shelter, even a raft to go down river, but the rivers in BC aren't the Mississippi. We also had an inner tube trip down a river in Arizona for a few days. We got there from CA by way of a frieght train, and hitchhiking. We really didn't know where we would end up back then. Good times. Anyway, regarding wilderness survival adventure, I wanted more..., much, much more. But he got a job, married, and now has kids, whereas I am but a young elf who has no hope of "growing up".
I envy their bond, assuming of course.

There is an post on the bare wilderness website from Oct. 23rd stating that the guys did not make the 30 days. Looking at the departure date and the last calculations of days gone, it appears they stopped at day 14. Have to give them credit for trying though.

The post is here.

So what happened that ended it? Weather? Lack of preps? Lack of equipment? Lack of experience? Lack of brains?

Sue

Is that an actual picture of the two in question? Um, isn't that a little more than "just a knife" on their backs?

Yeah, "just my knife," sure. And my blow dryer, generator, king sized bed, personal masuesse, ... Yep, "just my knife." I'm a tough survival kind of guy.

So they bailed after 2 weeks? Still, that's not too bad. Les usually does one week, doesn't he?

What happened? Anyone know?

I've done an extended weekend with basically just my EDC items, but a month is a lot of time. Even when I have all my gear with me I feel like three or more weeks is a lot, especially with only one other person.