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#107586 - 10/02/07 10:53 PM Re: Why a Multitool? [Re: eric_2003]
Nicodemus Offline
Paranoid?
Veteran

Registered: 10/30/05
Posts: 1341
Loc: Virginia, US
Survival situations vary and not all occur in the bush.

Not all situations where a Multitool would be useful are life or death, but I find I get into a lot of situations without my toolbox on hand.

When I go hiking in relatively populated areas, no one looks twice at the Charge Ti, but I've gotten more than a few looks with my other knives strapped to my hip.

When I go further out on hikes or camping my other knives come out, but they're not folders. Even so, I have my Multitool with me and have used it.

While I've taken courses on primitive tool making, and can utilize stone, wood, bone and so on to make a lot of the things I might need in a survival situation. Sometimes I can make the job easier with my Multitool.

I'd rather make a fine point on a bone hook with my Charge Ti's file than sand the bone down on a rock, but that would only be necessary if I lost the hooks in my PSK.

Even though I can break antlers for use in knapping by using an angled edge on a stone to create a place for a controlled break, or use fire to weaken a breaking point for that matter, my Multitool's saw is faster and cleaner. In regards to knapping, I once used the small phillips head tip firmly placed in my Charge Ti to knap a point on an small arrow. Granted I'd prefer the controlled leverage of an Ishi stick, but in a pinch it worked.

If I need to cut rope, straps, or even cordage I make, the serrated blade comes in handy.

I trimmed a hangnail while on the trail with the scissors.
_________________________
"Learn survival skills when your life doesn't depend on it."

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#107590 - 10/02/07 11:27 PM Re: Why a Multitool? [Re: Brangdon]
MDinana Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/08/07
Posts: 2208
Loc: Beer&Cheese country
I don't know either. I have a SOG multiplier in my BOB, and I EDC a Crosscut on my keychain. I've used it, maybe, three times. I usually have a pocket knife outside of work, and even then, maybe use it once every other day (for stuff that really doesn't need a knife, like the mail). At work, I don't carry anything besides my pen, wallet, keys, phone, stethoscope.

Obviously I'm still here.

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#107591 - 10/02/07 11:55 PM Re: Why a Multitool? [Re: eric_2003]
Frankie Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 09/19/03
Posts: 736
Loc: Montréal, Québec, Canada
I don't have a multitool and would never carry it everyday anyway, it's too bulky, it's still expensive and if you loose it you loose everything.

For opening cans, I have a (1 dollar?) p51 military can opener. It's tiny and light, costs nothing, and makes a cleaner cut. You can hang it on your keychain or put it in your wallet.

For scissors, I have tiny folding scissors I got from a cheap AMK Pocket Medic on my keychain.

For tweezers, I have good quality Sliver Gripper tweezers (about 7 dollars)

And I carry a one handed opening Spyderco Delica (plain edge) everyday. I don't feel it the way I carry it (as on Doug's picture) and it's very light.

As for the saw, believe me there's not much that can be cut with such a small length. To be really effective a saw should be ideally half an arm span long. The shortest useful saw is the pruning saw but you can do what it's capable of doing with a sheath knife. It's just quicker with it. The sheath knife is a survival tool while the pruning saw is a crafting tool.

If I had to carry pliers, I would buy a special sheath that you can get in fishing stores and get normal affordable real needle nose pliers from the hardware store.

But again, YMMV!

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#107592 - 10/03/07 12:02 AM Re: Why a Multitool? [Re: eric_2003]
widget Offline
Addict

Registered: 07/06/03
Posts: 550
Personally, I do not like the extra weight usually but I can really see some uses. I can see using the scissors to cut moleskin or bandages, the saw for cutting small sticks for a fire or notching sticks for traps. I can see the knife blades for any cutting they are big enough to handle. The file can be used for a variety of things, the pliers are great for twisting that extra locking loop into a snare, if the need ever comes along.
Mainly they are just handy for the extra tools. A loose cross country ski binging, getting into that screwed in battery compartment.
I will say, I prefer a real knife with a sturdy fixed blade as a survival tool. The Leatherman is a secondary tool with many more options but to me, not a substitute for a good knife. I usually take both along.
_________________________
No, I am not Bear Grylls, but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night and Bear was there too!

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#107602 - 10/03/07 01:35 AM Re: Why a Multitool? [Re: eric_2003]
Seeker890 Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 06/19/06
Posts: 93
Loc: Central Ohio
I don't see a multi-tool vs knife as an either or situation. I use both. I have a Leatherman Wave (leather sheath) and I wear it whenever I am not at work. I have some other brand in my briefcase that I take to work. I also have a RSK that I wear at work and at home. The RSK is for all of my knife cutting tasks and the wave is for everything else. Once you get used to having it on your belt, I find that I really miss it when I leave it off for some reason. Just the other day I needed to use the pliers to get a grip on the little bulb in my minimag light to replace it.
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#107606 - 10/03/07 01:58 AM Re: Why a Multitool? [Re: Frankie]
JohnnyUpton Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 05/03/07
Posts: 60
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Frankie
I don't have a multitool and would never carry it everyday anyway, it's too bulky, it's still expensive and if you loose it you loose everything.

For opening cans, I have a (1 dollar?) p51 military can opener. It's tiny and light, costs nothing, and makes a cleaner cut. You can hang it on your keychain or put it in your wallet.

For scissors, I have tiny folding scissors I got from a cheap AMK Pocket Medic on my keychain.

For tweezers, I have good quality Sliver Gripper tweezers (about 7 dollars)

And I carry a one handed opening Spyderco Delica (plain edge) everyday. I don't feel it the way I carry it (as on Doug's picture) and it's very light.


How is that any different than losing your knife? You also have about $50 worth of gear listed and one can find a pretty decent multi-tool in that price range and you still are missing some sort of pliers, screwdrivers and a file. While potentially not necessary for survival, they sure make life considerably easier.

For me, the “bulk” of a multi-tool is easily offset by the fact I have 11-13 tools easily accessible.




Quote:
As for the saw, believe me there's not much that can be cut with such a small length. To be really effective a saw should be ideally half an arm span long. The shortest useful saw is the pruning saw but you can do what it's capable of doing with a sheath knife. It's just quicker with it. The sheath knife is a survival tool while the pruning saw is a crafting tool.



While you aren't going to saw logs with it, I do find the MT saw useful for cutting 1" dia saplings for frame poles and the like.

While not the perfect tool for every job, its much simpler to carry a single piece of equipment Vs 13.

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#107608 - 10/03/07 02:23 AM Re: Why a Multitool? [Re: eric_2003]
ironraven Offline
Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
Well, part of me smells troll tracks in this post, but I'll play along.

I EDC an LM Supertool and Micra, but I consider myself rural despite being a professional geek. Any of our Vermont members will tell you, we have rural and we have small parts of the Burlington area that you can drive through in less than an hour on the surface roads. Assuming you don't have to stop for moose to make up their minds.

Some every day, and not so every day, usages my various multis have had over the years, by part:

Pliers
-Picking up things that are hot/sharp/generally nasty
-pulling porcupine quills (OUCH!) and large thorns, plucking feathers
-tightening wire
-improving your grip on wet/oily paracord or vines when tieing knots
-improving your grip on small and wet/oily metal or plastic bits
-cracking certain small nuts and seeds
-crimping various metal and plastic items
-cutting wire
-breaking zip ties and similiar closure items
-twisting various kinds of bolts (and if you don't think that is a survival situation, you've never had a battery cable wiggle loose in the middle of the night at 10 below on a back back road)

File
-smoothing metal edges to protect you or gear
-sharpening machete (you could sharpen other blades with it, too)
-filings from a mag bar or some other source of magnesium or aluminum for starting a fire
-putting a point on something hard
-striker for strike anywhere matches when most stuff is wet

Saw
-Shaping wood or rigid plastic (includes shelter building)
-spine for striking on ferro rod
-spine for scaling fish
-spine for other light scraping duties
-tip has a notch- use it for removing hooks from fish, certain VERY find scraping

Knife blades
-back up, not the main reason I carry the thing. But you always have a back up- redundancy is life, that is why you have two lungs

Screwdrivers
-if it can screw together, it will unscrew if you give it time
-largest, for prying open freshwater mussels and the like
-smallest, sharp enough to use as awl or gouge

Can opener
-the obvious reason
-gutting blade (not the best, but it works for fish)
-scraping on small wood (trap triggers and the like)

Scissors
-they're scissors
-cutting, stripping light wire

Ruler scribed on the outside of the handle
-What do you normally do with a ruler?
-I can't think of a single non-urban use, honestly

Yes, you can fake a lot of this with a knife blade- you can scrape, pry, tighten screws, and try to cut through a 3" tree limb. But that edge is a valuable survival tool, I'd rather not dull or chip it (or break it) when I may need to be able to count on it before I can sharpen it. As a result, I carry a tool that does more than just cut, along with at least one that only cuts (aka, a knife). And I've never found the weight to be an issue, not for what I'm getting. I own good single blade folders that weigh as much and don't have as many tricks up their sleeve.

So, I guess my counter question is this:
Why not a multitool (or SAK and a small pair of pliers) for EDC and survival?

From another perspective, most people don't carry knives any more and never seem to have any serious handicap. Why do you carry a knife? I don't need to know the answer, I just want you to think it through, and apply your answer to the question of "why a multitool".


Edited by ironraven (10/03/07 02:28 AM)
_________________________
-IronRaven

When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

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#107621 - 10/03/07 06:17 AM Re: Why a Multitool? [Re: ironraven]
wildman800 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 2851
Loc: La-USA
I agree with ALL of your comments, Ironraven
_________________________
QMC, USCG (Ret)
The best luck is what you make yourself!

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#107632 - 10/03/07 09:44 AM Re: Why a Multitool? [Re: wildman800]
Onedzguy Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 09/29/07
Posts: 69
Loc: Lost in Waipahu, HI
Why a Multitool? To increase my chances of using a first aid kit?

I have a Gerber multitool. I've already accidentally cut myself with the blade. I've heard of other people getting pinched while using the pliers.

It all depends upon what you want to get the most out of the multitool.

BTW I'm a smart person. But I have done some stupid things. Hence a ready available first aid kit.




Edited by Onedzguy (10/03/07 09:45 AM)

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#107633 - 10/03/07 11:14 AM Re: Why a Multitool? [Re: Onedzguy]
DavidBinGA Offline
Stranger

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 1
If you really want to find the right tool for you, I suggest you visit a website out there that helps folks like you with this very same problem. Check out Multitool.org They have lots of reviews, in depth info on lots of subjects and a forums like ETS where they converse on these multitools. They have on several occasion hooked someone up with a tool that was right for them, check them out and see if you like what they have to offer.

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