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#103633 - 08/26/07 09:43 PM Re: urban surival protection question [Re: ScouterMan]
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
Be sure to avoid a "sword cane." Those things are illegal in many states, and from what you said above, your state is more than likely on that list...
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#103642 - 08/27/07 12:22 AM Re: urban surival protection question [Re: ScouterMan]
KRW11078 Offline
Stranger

Registered: 08/26/07
Posts: 3
Loc: Southern Suburb of Chicago
I was a Chicago Cop for 20+ years and would like to share two thoughts....
1 - An honest person, in defense of him/herself, their family or their country, never really needs a handgun until they really need it and then they really need it..
2 - It is far better to be judged by 12 then carried by 6.....

It is possible to conceal a small, large caliber (.45) handgun (if it is not large caliber, why carry it?), about your person and still be accessible that only a violation of your 4th. amendment rights will find it.. I know, I've done it for years..

Ken

"The right to bear arms is the right to be free!!!"

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#103646 - 08/27/07 12:55 AM Re: urban surival protection question [Re: ScouterMan]
ronron2112 Offline
Stranger

Registered: 07/01/06
Posts: 4
Greetings from another one from Mass. Well as far as the expanding baton, take a trip to Newbury Street and go in the army barracks, they sell all sorts of goodies there. (as far as i can tell, the only illegal batons are the spring loaded ones).

And as far as the gun, it's not hard to get a LTC concealed, I have mine. It's only an education course, paperwork, the waiting game, and a squeaky clean record.

You can get a pepper spray liscense which is different from an FID, you just feed to fill out a form at your local PD.

-Ron
(hope this post works, havent been able to post in the past!)

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#103655 - 08/27/07 02:47 AM Re: urban surival protection question [Re: ]
ironraven Offline
Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
Attitude can be everything.

A small can of WD40 is easier to explain than a can of oven cleaner, and probably just as effective. It is also just damn useful.
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When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

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#103659 - 08/27/07 03:35 AM Re: urban surival protection question [Re: ScouterMan]
Raspy Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/08/04
Posts: 351
Loc: Centre Hall Pa
The thing to remember about improvised weapons is they are just that. Weapons are created from objects that come to hand. Remember if you construct a weapon example the length of hose filled with nuts and bolts or the old biker trick of a belt made of chain that is worn outside the belt loops and the police become involved it's still a weapon and you may go to jail.

If on the other hand use what comes to hand in self-defense it's not a weapon. The object is merely something you picked up. Now if you do want to carry a concealed improvised weapon construct something that appears normal but is effective.

Example a small leather draw string pouch filled with change. This is merely your way of carrying change the makes one heck of a blackjack. If equipped with longer strings as a flail.

Loose change or a change purse can be thrown as a distraction. The loose change will thrown at the face will cause anyone to duck aside and raise their hands to protect the eyes. Giving you a few seconds to gain a couple of extra steps to flee or an opening to attack. A change purse about the size of a fist is the same as a rock. Traveling at 30 or 40 miles an hour can definitely leave an impression.

Also a can of cayenne pepper with a loose lid. The active ingredient in cayenne pepper is the ingredient used in pepper spray. This is if pepper spray is illegal in your area. A face full of cayenne will drop almost anyone. Home made pepper spray. Cayenne in alcohol out of a squeeze bottle.

There is always the can of coke in a sock for the frequent flyer. Or if you are worried about the metal can a water bottle works just as well. What screener would disallow a common pack as a carry on with a change of cloths including fresh socks and a plastic bottle full of water? Combined makes a decent black jack.

A tightly rolled magazine is a stick. What is paper made out of, “wood” of course?

Canes or hiking staff are self-explanatory. You have a weak knee so need the support.

Take a cap. The old fashion flat driving hats work best. Place several ounces of lead sinkers in the back. Add a small bag of hooks and some fishing line. Hey it is emergency fishing tackle. Grabbed by the bill and slapped smartly across the face of an assailant. Said person will be very surprised when they wake up.

A roll of change held in the fist. It is just spare change. But it definitely increases the impact. A double A mini flashlight can serve the same function. When using these types of items the most effective strike is to hit like a hammer so the hand load hits. A straight punch can hurt the fingers.

Does anyone remember the old Bic commercial where they fired the pen out of a rifle through a pine board? Sure the plastic shattered but the point remained intact. You now have a stabbing weapon.

Then along the same lines are the rat tailed combs and brushes. They can poke quit a nasty hole. And does any of the older crowd remember the fro picks from the 60’s and 70’s. Back then there were places that outlawed them as a concealed weapon, especially the metal tined ones, because they were being used effectively as one.

A 12-inch steel drafting ruler makes a nasty slashing weapon. Two things don’t sharpen or wrap part of it as a handle. Both scream a prepared weapon. You are slashing not slicing. Add some graph or drawing paper to your clipboard along with drawing or drafting pencils as cover.

A clipboard can be used as a shield to deflect an attack. It can also be used to strike edge on.

The list could go on and on. The ideal concealed weapon is not a weapon at all. Just a common ordinary object that can be used as such. So forget the fancy ninja and oriental fighting weapons. Most of those were common everyday farm implements not weapons back then. With the exception of the cap fishing kit and the homemade pepper spray all are normal but effective tools.

These are objects that you could carry among many others. Then there are environmental objects to consider. These can be found anywhere from the country to the city. All it really takes is the proper mindset to realize their potential. It truly amazes me that airport screening is so concerned about such trivial things like nail clippers. The world is full of weapons you jut have to reach out and use them.

Most government buildings where the rules are the strictest are loaded. Most have those lightweight plastic and bent rod chairs. You could easily beat someone silly with them. Now days almost every place has drop ceilings. T shaped tracks made of metal supports these. While the main runners are long the cross supports usually 2 or 4 feet long. They are not real heavy so don’t hit like a baseball bat they will cause some damage because of speed. The ends are somewhat pointy and could be used as a stabbing weapon.

Rocks, bottles, chunks of bricks, whatever as impact or thrown weapons.

A piece of pipe or a stick is rather obvious.

A trash can lid is both a defensive device and a weapon. Back in the days of the knights of old the shield number one job was to deflect the opponents weapons but was also used effectively to bash flat into someone or smash with the edge. While the old metal can lids are the best especially when turned to offensive strikes the plastic ones will deflect a strike.

The next time you are sitting around cooling your heels waiting for an appointment take a couple of minutes and look around. What is lying about loose and how it could be used. What can you pry from the walls or ceiling that could be used to slash, poke or swat with. Or the same walking down the street. After a few times of doing this deliberately it is amazing how easily it becomes seeing the myriad of objects that surround you that can be used to protect yourself.

Remember anything you deliberately carried for self-defense as long as it has a legitimate purpose the police can ignore it as a weapon. But if it appears to be a contrived weapon you could be in a whole lot of trouble. Do not fancy up or improve the object to make it more lethal. Learn how to use it effectively as it comes out of the box. If it screams weapon you will be looked on as the aggressor not the victim. If you win you will be looked at hard enough as it is. In this current PC world they will give the poor unfortunate criminal the benefit of the doubt. You as the victim defending yourself is considered in a bad light to begin with throw in a weapon or anything prepared as a WEAPON. Well you get the picture. Learn to use the world around you.

Remember C. Y. A. just in case.
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When in danger or in doubt
run in circles scream and shout
RAH

And always remember TANSTAAFL

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#103662 - 08/27/07 04:21 AM Re: urban surival protection question [Re: Raspy]
paulr Offline
Addict

Registered: 02/18/04
Posts: 499
If it's about the 25 mile trip back home, maybe you want one of those folding commuter bicycles that collapses to briefcase size. I think this should only come into operation if the train is stuck somewhere. If trouble happens when you're at the office I would suggest just spending the night there. You might stash a cheap sleeping bag behind your desk just in case.


Edited by paulr (08/27/07 04:22 AM)

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#103682 - 08/27/07 02:05 PM Re: urban surival protection question [Re: ScouterMan]
DesertFox Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/04/07
Posts: 339
Loc: New York, NY

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#103699 - 08/27/07 05:04 PM Re: urban surival protection question [Re: DesertFox]
garland Offline
Member

Registered: 12/22/06
Posts: 170
Loc: harrisburg, pa
Originally Posted By: DesertFox


Bah, someone beat me to it. I was gonna recommend this too!

I don't own one though so I can't vouch for it. Just gotta admit the dual utility(self defense, rain defense) of it seems more viable than other options.

HOWEVER the following is a VERY GOOD recommendation off their site:

“Our FMA training teaches us to be able to use items from everyday life. An umbrella obviously resembles a stick, but the simple fact is that all the umbrellas we've seen are too flimsy for most serious purposes. THIS ONE MEASURES UP. To confirm the claims made at http://www.self-defense.info/umbrella1.html I have put it through full power two-handed baseball bat swings at a heavy bag (I didn't bother to stand on mine though). The impact generated was impressive and the umbrella still readily opened with the push of a buttton. We think this umbrella measures up as a worthy self-defense tool--and as an umbrella too. Woof!”
—Crafty Dog (Marc Denny)


Marc Denny is a VERY well respected filipino martial arts instructor (which I am a long-time student of - see my title?). The guy KNOWS what he's doing and regularly tests it in a live sparring situation (full contact stick fighting).

That just sold me. I want this umbrella.


Edited by garland (08/27/07 05:08 PM)
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#106410 - 09/20/07 06:48 AM Re: urban surival protection question [Re: Russ]
countrymouse Offline
Stranger

Registered: 01/23/06
Posts: 24
As others have alluded to, an environmentally appropriate carry is important.

I used to have a nice survival knife in my computer bag and then realized that it could easily be misunderstood in that context (it moved to my BOB). A leatherman-type tool with screwdriver functions can easily explained in my computer case even if it had a large blade.

An ex-coworker once drew me into a sexual harassment suit against the organization (I was a witness not the target of the suit). However, I did have to explain my gun collection in court documents. I don't carry, but I do hunt and have some relic and curio guns.

It was a cheap lawyer ploy, but just goes to show how things can be twisted. For that reason, I wouldn't suggest carrying oven cleaner unless you could prove you bought it that day and had a receipt. The same goes for any OTC product which a "reasonable" person would think is inappropriate. For example, if you carried a household hammer into the DMV while complaining about your license, you would definitely get an LE intervention despite the fact that almost every owns a hammer - even if you didn't explicitly threaten anyone and it was just on your person.

The self-defense umbrella is a good non-threatening alternative. However, if some incident evolved into its actual use. You can be sure that the fact that it was not a normal umbrella would easily be brought up in a court case.

In a non-urban environment, there are definitely more choices. Be prepared, but don't be stupid.

There was a local court case where some teenagers got into an argument at a party. One guy went to his car and came back with a snow shovel swinging it around and threatening people at the party. Some kid got his nose broken. Although the guy with the shovel didn't hit anyone, his actions and the injury nabbed him a felony. As far as the jury was concerned, his actions contributed to someone being hurt - even though he didn't actually do it. Be smart and don't rely on the interpretation of any particular law to protect you.




Edited by countrymouse (09/20/07 07:04 AM)

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#106412 - 09/20/07 09:40 AM Re: urban surival protection question [Re: countrymouse]
Farmer Offline
Member

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 125
Loc: Mid-Atlantic
Always choose the appropriate tool for any job. I wouldn't use a shoe to drive a nail. And I wouldn't try to use an umbrella to defend against some knucklehead with a Glock.

Apply to the State, get your carry license and get some firearms training. With emphasis on the training part.

Keep in mind the fact that disastrous situations don't necessarily happen at times that would allow you 8 hours of daylight to walk home. Assume that at least part of your trip will be after nightfall, and then decide what you want to carry to defend yourself.
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Knowing where you're going is NOT the same as knowing how to get there.

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