I just purchased a hunting version of the AK-47. Standard stock, no "bad" attachments. But the exact same internals as the AK-47. Made in Russia at the same factory with the same parts.

Same chrome barrel, same receiver, almost everything is the same. They changed the fire control group (trigger and release assembly) so that it can not easily be modified to full auto. They removed the pistol grip and moved the fire control group to the rear to accommodate the standard rifle stock.

Really a wolf in sheeps clothing.

Cost to me delivered was $269. Most military style AK's are in the 5-$700 range.

See it at
Stanley Pro Shop Saiga Rifle
Standard disclaimer for stanleys sport shop. I have no connection with them other than being a customer.

This is a "street legal" AK that was manufactured to comply with the now expired assault weapons ban. It is imported as a hunting rifle.

Mine is a pleasure to shoot and of course it has the legendary reliability of the AK series.

They also make it in .223, 308, 12ga, 20ga, 410 and probably others. Prices of course vary depending on the caliber.

If you are looking for a 30-30 powered semi-automatic, take a look at this one. A real good "bang for the buck" (sorry I could not resist) rifle.

Nomad,
Very cool low profile rifle. Will it accept standard AK 30 round mags?

These have been around a while. IIRC, the stock becomes a bipod.

FYI, they are NOT legal in California (big suprise), as they are semi-auto in a centerfire round.

My understanding is nyet. People claim to have modified them to do so, but I wouldn't be comfortable with it.

Apparently Russian gun laws are just as screwy as ours are, and I know the Saigas were first made for their domestic market.

Hi,

Neat looking rifle but it would be a be classed as restricted or prohibited in Canada due to; it being an AK-47 variant, being a centrefire semi-auto with a barrel lenght less than 18" and being a centrefire semi-auto with a magazine capacity greater than 5 rounds.

Looks like a tough rifle though.

Mike

The only downside is that they do not use standard AK magazines without some modification. Otherwise you need to buy the Saiga mags.
These have been popular here in CA because we still have a AW ban and this rifle is not on the list of banned weapons.

Correct about the magazines. They are not interchangeable with the standard AK-47. I do not know the legal issues as I have no intention of modifying mine. However the modification appears trivial. Either the rifle or the mag. can be modified by grinding a small amount of material off. Also because most of the parts are the same as the AK-47, you can modify it to almost any configuration. I understand that there are some legal issues though. Something about 922r compliant.

There is no bipod on the forestock. You might be thinking of the KelTec series. I had one (SU-16) and got rid of it. I could change the point of impact (POI)depending on how I held it. I kept getting "fliers", up to 6" off point of aim. I finally put a laser in the barrel and noticed I could change the POI just by putting a slight sideways pressure on the forestock. Besides I think the 7.62x39 is a much better cartridge for my use.

It comes in many "flavors". There is a 21" bbl and I believe you can get magazines restricted to 5 rnds. to satisfy the tougher requirements of some jurisdictions. It is my understanding that it is not listed as an AK variant, but as a hunting rifle. But again, I am not really following the various legal aspects.

I also just bought a Marlin papoose. Both cost about the same. Go figure....

I just thought it was a good value for the $$.

MDianna,
You need to look into California gun laws a little more deeply. I live here and I know for sure the deal. Check out www.calguns.net if you want to know the truth.

ALL Saigas are not illegal in CA just like all AK's or all ARs. I couldn't tell who made the one in the link. But it has to be listed on the Robert-Rossi list or have a combination of banned features. There are workarounds that are completely legal.
Some Saigas are made by RRA and are not listed. This also goes for many other AK and AR variants. If they are not listed you must have them configured with either a fixed mag (there are kits) or a detachable set up with no banned features like; pistol grips of any kind, folding stocks and flash suppressors.
I have a CA legal AR-15 that I built and have no issues taking to the range or outdoors.
I have been to gun shows in SF where complete ARs and AKs are for sale (usually witout any banned features); so all are not illegal.

Here is a link to the truth; http://calguns.net/a_california_arak.htm

Here in Kali citizens know the law better than the state.

The possible legal issues are the same issues about having some number of US made parts in an AK to make certain modifications. My understanding is that they come up if you want to put a folding stock or true AK mags into a Saiga. *shrugs* Stupid stuff.

Interesting weapon. My only worry would be that, at least in my experience, the AK system is not well known for it accuracy. Reliability yes, accuracy, no...

Why do you want such a light caliber?
A rifle chambered in .270 Winchester or .30-06 is would be a FAR better choice for hunting deer size prey as well as for self-defense (the only thing a 7x39 would do to a bear would be to make it EXTREMELY angry).
(p.s.the rifle caliber of choice for brown bear in coastal Alaska is the .375 Winchester)

You say so. I grew up in Cali too, and I've never seen a Saiga at a firearms shop (gun show, yes)

Yes, if it's a rifle that's been registered before 2001, it's fine to have an AK or AR or a Saiga. You sure you're not looking at the pump-action AKs that are sometimes paraded around?

Taken directly from the state's website, page 58, Saiga is specifically mentioned:
http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/awguide.pdf

Your first link also has them listed (Attatchment 5).

Could you modify it? Probably... but for a stock rifle, I'm pretty sure they're not allowed (plus lots of online dealers won't ship to Kali)

Mine came with a certification that said it was tested at 100m with a 4 shot group of less than 96mm (about 3.5"). Not a tack driver but accurate enough for short range hunting.

Guess California does ban them. Oh well....

Hi Doug,

I agree with you that a larger caliber than a .223 would be a more effective hunting round (I think it was stated early in this post that the Saiga was available in larger calibers though). I think many people prefer the .223 because of the availability of ammo if TSHTF.

"(p.s.the rifle caliber of choice for brown bear in coastal Alaska is the .375 Winchester)"

Concerning the .375 Winchester as being the caliber of choice for brown bears I think you are confusing the .375's.

The .375 Winchester is a straight-walled round developed by Winchester in 1978 for use in their strengthened Model 94 lever action rifle. It fires a 220gr. flat nosed bullet at app. 2200fps making it a good round for deer and black bear at close range. I would much rather have one of these than a pointy stick if charged by a brown bear but it would not be my caliber of choice.

I think the .375 you were referencing is the .375 H&H Magnum developed in 1912 and is often referred to a minimum all-around world caliber. It launches a 300gr. bullet at 2600fps and is a highly recommended caliber for coastal brown bears.

Mike

"...Not a tack driver but accurate enough for short range hunting..."

True, that is about as well as my "poor mans assault rifle" (Enfield Model 5 Jungle Carbine) will do...

Yes some Saigas were listed but a later court decision (Harrott)
ruled that a make and model must be listed so when a new nonlisted maker comes on the market the state needs to add them to the list.
In the case of Saiga the "Kalisnakov USA Hunting Rifle/Saiga" is listed but the Russian American Arms versions are not listed therefore as long as it is configured legally you can own it.
Most FFL's in California are still not on board (the DOJ intimidates them) but there are some who are stepping up and offering their FFL services and a few are even stocking them. But for the most part folks are building them up from stipped lower receivers.

What happened is a bunch of folks started discussing the law and found a fully legal way to own these guns because of how the law was written and how later court rulings made it possible to buy a "nonlisted" gun or lower receiver and build it up in a CA legal configuration.

Hi OBG,

I see a lot of moose, deer and black bear killed with different versions of the Lee-Enfield .303 British rifle every year in Northern Ontario. Mostly Mark 1's and 4's but the odd Jungle Carbine, usually in traditional deer camps in wooded/brushy country.

It is a very effective round at reasonable range; being an ex-service cartridge here I would guess it is as common to us as your 30-06 Springfield in the States.


Mike

Firearms are purchased for two reasons; a researched system that will deliver specific performance somewhere between 6" and 600 meters past the muzzle, and/ or an assembly of cultural and emotional features- 'wowee that's cool.' My first 'bear rifle' while at Kodiak was a Mauser 98 with 220 grain Hornadays, a common carry of many guides. When I worked 6 months in Kenai with the Park Service doing specific bear research we carried .375 H&H model 70s. My current universal surival rifle is a smelly .303 with a supply of service hardball and australian Rhino 215 grain handloads. I learned early on to let the bears do their thing and I mine. With a little common sense by both parties we have avoided any misunderstandings. I do reserve that SMLE for charging Soccer Moms in their SUVs. I figure the same tactics for bears is appropo; a breaking shot to a front tyre to stop the charge followed up by a killing shot into the engine block.

It is interesting, at least to me, that nowadays many folk seem to think that they need a "magnum" for anything. I am currently in pronghorn antelope country, season in full bloom, and the other day I saw the remains of a full grown male that was shot with a 300 Winchester Mag. A 300 Winmag for a small deer??? There was not enough meat left for a good burger. I used to think that a .243, .270, and a .30-06 were good enough for anything this side of Africa. Apparenly not these days...

You are missing the point OBG, when you miss with your super duper ultra magnum the shock wave alone will take down your critter. You don't need a big gun if you know how to use it. One of my cousins lives in LA (that's Lower Alabama to you folks that ain't from around these parts) hunts with a 30 caliber carbine, work on anything from rabbits to deer. He has always put diner on the table with it.

I have owned a number of heavier caliber rifles. MI Garrand, 308's etc. I picked this rifle for a variety of reasons.

Reliability is high on the list. I have had several semi-automatic rifles (including the M1) give me problems when "mistreated". The AK design is about as reliable as it gets.

Much of the use of this rifle will be by others who are not "trained" or used to high power rifles. In many places in the world, kids are using it. It is simple to maintain and easy to learn. Plus ammo is cheap.... well it was... Going steadily up in price.

Much of my hunting in Maine was done under 100 yards. In fact I can not remember a kill over about 75. This will be plenty powerful for that.

I am retired on a fixed income. Can't afford to shoot the "big brass" stuff and can't keep reloading stuff in the RV. Not a good idea and it takes up a lot of room.

A relative in Maine (now about 70) bought a rifle when he was 17. He sighted it in then and threw it in the back seat of his pickup. Been there ever since. Outlasted a lot of trucks. Every year he gets a deer. Buys a box of shells about once in 10 years. Fires one test shot at the beginning of the season and another when he gets his deer. He shoots for meat. If I shot that way I could afford the "big brass" gun, but I shoot for meat, and for fun.

The garrand was a nice gun. However having it throw away a necessary part on the last shot bothers me. Those clips are getting harder to find. Way too powerful for me. 50 rounds on the range and my shoulder turned blue.

On a darker note, I am one of those guys who believes that there should be a rifle behind every kitchen door. But then I am from Maine and that may not be such a good idea elsewhere. During my Red Cross experience in New Orleans, I saw first hand what a breakdown in the social structure is like. I saw many a guy with a gun in his lap watching over his store, factory, house or neighborhood. In Florida, some areas were picked clean by looters. Should it come to that, I think this will be a suitable weapon. I can afford only one center fire rifle. It is always a trade-off. A gun is much like a knife. What suits one person may annoy another.

Besides I always wanted to play with Mr. K's gun. It truly is a remarkable design. So many little innovations.

I enjoyed all the comments. Thanks for responding.

Ah, the .30 Carbine. Bought one thru the DCM a jillion years ago, cost $21 delivered. I loved that little guy, used it mainly on charging jack rabbits, with a 30 round mag it was a ball to shoot. Sold it to buy a Ruger Mini-14 (the 20GBF with folding stock, etc), which had more power, but was not as much fun to shoot...

ROFLMAO! That statement is as humorous as reading Jeff Cooper on 9mm. And about as full of it.

7.62x39mm is equivalent to .30-30 in terms of effective range, general accuracy and kinetic energy. Where it is superior to the .30-30 is the ability to use spitzer tip bullets. .30-30 has taken as much game if not more than the .30-06, ranging from deer to hog to bear to moose. If you doubt it, there is a moose head in my parent's living room, and I know for a fact it was killed with a .30-30.

The only advantages that a larger .30 caliber round would give you, honestly, are improved accuracy, penetration of hard material and long range performance due to higher initial velocity. 3MOA works well enough for most things under 200m. In most situations, you aren't going to be shooting at game over 200m. And you aren't going to be trying to stop engine blocks or a water buffalo. But until you get out a ways, that higher speed isn't going to add anything in North America than polar or large brown bear. In CONUS, baring zoo escape, there's nothing in that class.