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#105573 - 09/13/07 07:46 PM Re: Ultralight Cordage [Re: GoatMan]
Alan_Romania Offline

Addict

Registered: 06/29/05
Posts: 648
Loc: Arizona
I have been using spectra cord in my small kits, it is super light and vvery strong. You have to have good knot tying skills and it isn't a replacement for 550 cord for everyday utility use or general camping. But, if you are looking for light, strong & compact cord for kits where space and weight is a premium (like a PSK or survival vest) it works well.


Edited by Alan_Romania (09/13/07 08:03 PM)
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#105608 - 09/14/07 02:04 AM Re: Ultralight Cordage [Re: Alan_Romania]
big_al Offline
Addict

Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 586
Loc: 20mi east of San Diego

I use Berkiey's GORILLA LINE 50lb.test braided camo line. soft, strong and rolls up small.

works for me

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#105628 - 09/14/07 06:05 AM Re: Ultralight Cordage [Re: NightHiker]
ironraven Offline
Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
+1 on that.

Although if allowed more than one, some sisal twine is nice. You don't ahve to feel guilty if you leave it in the field, and if it is dry, it makes great tinder.
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When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

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#105642 - 09/14/07 02:33 PM Re: Ultralight Cordage [Re: ironraven]
GoatMan Offline
Member

Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 119
I have read about Spectra kite string vs Dacron. Spectra is higher end and stronger, but it sounds like it is more difficult to tie knots in. That is the primary reason I felt like Dacron held an advantage over Spectra for small all purpose PSK line.

So thus far, it sounds like Dacron is a good all around line that isn't expensive. Knots well and holds up well, but doesn't resist UV rays for extended life. But for a PSK, the line can always be replaced.

Spiderwire Ultracast Invisibrade has an up on Dacron in that you can get a mostly clear version of it. It may be a bit thinner as well? On the down side, it is much more expensive.

How about the Coat & Clarks thread? Not too many comments there. Anyone know what the true strength is? It sounds like it would knot better than the other two options and be better for sewing, do okay for fishing and snares, and resist UV rays better. Has a good price point.

Any other summaries or comparisons? As you can tell, I'm attempting to build my first true mini/pocket kit. I have my regular personal size kit, but I need to be more select in the smaller kit.




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#105655 - 09/14/07 04:02 PM Re: Ultralight Cordage [Re: GoatMan]
Kris Offline
Addict

Registered: 04/13/07
Posts: 627
Loc: A Canadian Back in Canada
Why not have all 3 on separte sewing bobbins that you see for sewing machines? You can get quite a bit on each bobbin and never know when you have the need for a particular type of cordage. Not to mention that each bobbin takes up next to nothing for space, but that all depends how big your mini/pocket kit will be.

This is how i'm going about my edc survival kit and my urban kit that survives in my edc bag.
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#105679 - 09/14/07 07:12 PM Re: Ultralight Cordage [Re: GoatMan]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078
Hi Goatman

For the highest strength to weight cordage, I not aware of anything stronger than the cordage produced by flexifoil at
http://www.flexifoil.co.uk/products/lines_options.php?rid=28



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#105835 - 09/16/07 01:00 PM Re: Ultralight Cordage [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
I'm not so worried about weight as volume, and it looks like the flexifoil is a bit larger in diameter than the dacron line I am using, even assuming I doubled mine over (to get the 220 lb diameter). It does look like an interesting alternative, though. Would be nice if they gave more specs on the website.
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The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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#105934 - 09/17/07 02:49 AM Re: Ultralight Cordage [Re: benjammin]
Art_in_FL Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2432
I have tried various types and brands of cordage. At one time I kept a hank of strong, hi-tech fishing line in a pocket. Before that heavy braided mason line and before that 550.

I shifted to the fishing line because I was impressed by its strength, lightness and that I could carry a very long length of it. So far so good until one day I had a bit of a pinch. Nothing critical. On a trip to move some furniture in someone else's truck it started to rain. Florida deluges and upholstery don't get along. Soaked stuffing tends to mould.

He had a tarp handy but not a bit of line to tie it with. Figuring this a good time I broke out my line. It worked but it was not an unalloyed success. The line was definitely strong enough. But it was also difficult to cut, even with a nice sharp knife, hard to tie and it was so thin that it sliced into the tarp and skin as I worked to get it all in place with rain softened hands. I certainly had enough, about 50 yards, but would have rather had a tenth as much if it was several times thicker and easier to work with. It worked out and the upholstery stayed dry enough.

But it dawned on me that in a worse, and more critical situation, ease of handling might not be a matter of comfort and convenience. It might be the difference between making it or not.

A quick test:
Get your hands cold and wet. I handle a large piece of ice. Yankees, I suppose, could simply step outside. Then while your hands are semi-frozen reach in and grab you hank of line. Now do some stuff with it. Loop it over a limb while doubled try to use it to assist you in climbing a simulated slope.

Refreeze the hands if necessary and lash a few poles together. Minimum of four lashings. I know you all keep your knife shaving sharp but in a pinch you may dull it a bit. Kevlar can can dull a knife pretty quick. So cut the line with a slightly dulled knife. Using nothing but your hands try to get those bindings really tight.

Again with frozen hands and with time pressure try some knots. Using a vice and pliers check the knots to see how they hold up under pressure.

Try this with Spiderwire or many of the other hi-tech, hi-strength small-diameter lines. You better be wearing gloves with some of these types.

The ability to carry a lot of really strong line isn't necessarily the only criteria. Find your own limits and preferences.

For me 3mm, roughly 1/8", is the absolute low end diameter for such cordage. Your still not going to be able to pull your body weight up even a doubled line without gloves but it is a lot better for being able to pull tight and work with than fishing line. 5mm or about 1/4" is even better but you start getting into major issues with bulk. An on-body kit has to ride without getting in your way or interfering with normal activities.

Kevlar, dyneema and spectra are all very strong but they all have issues. Some won't cut reliably with anything but a dead sharp or special knife or shears. They don't hold normal knots well and even less well when wet. If your going to tie it well and reliably you need to be careful and take your time. Time and care you may not be able to muster in a pinch with frozen hands.

My preference is for nylon or Dacron cord with a tight woven outer sleeve, treated to help keep it dry and hold a knot well. something thick enough to allow me to grip it well with cold, wet hands. Break strength is around 300 pounds, more than adequate for my use. The material cuts easily enough with a less than perfect edge but still resists abrasion and wear.

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#105945 - 09/17/07 03:20 AM Re: Ultralight Cordage [Re: Art_in_FL]
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
If you, as I, don't like being cold, put gloves on and then try the same tests. My bet, similar results...won't work. You need larger diameter line to work with...
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#105960 - 09/17/07 11:50 AM Re: Ultralight Cordage [Re: OldBaldGuy]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
It is a trade off. I have 550 in some of my occasional EDC stuff, but I always have dacron line handy. It is a PITA to work with as far as abrasion and pinching goes, and it will definitely cut or burn your skin if you are handling it under load, but it will work, and I can carry it with me under most any condition without encumberance.

The bottom line is, it will get the job done. It may not be the most convenient or ergonomic to work with, but it is more likely a normal person will edc enough of it to make a difference where they might not otherwise edc any cordage at all, other than sewing thread or floss. I would not normally carry even 10 yards of 550 in a pants pocket to work, where I could easily carry 25 or more yards of dacron line spooled around the pen in my vest pocket or an old credit card in my wallet and not feel it much different from payday.

Rope, cord, and string all have their place, and each are more suited to different sets of tasks perhaps. I would much rather build a shelter or tie down a load or a tarp on a load using 5'16 polypropylene braid. I prefer 550 for tieing up bundles, lacing up pack loads, and shoe lace fodder. 120 lb Dacron line is good for catching big fish, catching not so big fish, snaring critters, and for making the tip of my finger turn purple when I wrap it around my knuckle a few times smile

I would not even want to think about having to belay a load using that dacron line and just my hands. It'd strip the skin off before I could get the load to the top, unless I fashioned some sort of grappling system to handle it with easier.
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The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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