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#105238 - 09/11/07 02:33 AM Re: defense against swarming attacks? [Re: picard120]
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
There will be a "leader" of the group. Armed or unarmed, let that person know that, no matter what happens to you, you are gonna take him out first. And then do your best to take the sob out. If you get in a luck kick/punch/stab/shot/whatever, that may slow the rest of the gang down long enough for you to get away. Keep in mind that you are going to get hurt in the process. ..
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#105301 - 09/11/07 05:36 PM Re: defense against swarming attacks? [Re: Blast]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
You can be weak so long as you aren't also stupid. If you are smart enough, you can usually find a way through any problem.

If you are stupid, then you have to be pretty danged tough to compensate. Even then you might not make it.

Now, if you are smart and tough, you can make bank.
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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#105399 - 09/12/07 01:43 PM Re: defense against swarming attacks? [Re: jshannon]
TomApple Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 09/05/06
Posts: 80
Loc: Suffolk, Va.
Sing opera, badly... they'll flee. shocked

or

Rather than use a knife to defend yourself, carry a golf ball in one pocket, and a tube sock knee-high hose in the other. If surrounded, slip the golf ball into the sock and start swinging. crazy

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#105400 - 09/12/07 01:48 PM Re: defense against swarming attacks? [Re: TomApple]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
A golf ball in a sock seems to be one of the quickest ways I can think of to incapacitate myself in a fight.
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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#105421 - 09/12/07 03:53 PM Re: defense against swarming attacks? [Re: benjammin]
JCWohlschlag Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/26/06
Posts: 724
Loc: Sterling, Virginia, United Sta...
Originally Posted By: benjammin
A golf ball in a sock seems to be one of the quickest ways I can think of to incapacitate myself in a fight.

Precisely! If you kick your own butt, then they won’t have to… and they’ll be too busy laughing to do so.
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“Hiking is just walking where it’s okay to pee. Sometimes old people hike by mistake.” — Demitri Martin

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#105957 - 09/17/07 08:23 AM Re: defense against swarming attacks? [Re: JCWohlschlag]
xavier01 Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 12/02/02
Posts: 86
Loc: Phx, AZ
For those of you who have little experience in fighting, hand-to-hand combat against a single person, raised in the street, is no easy challenge. No doubt, they will have the advantage. The difficulty increases exponentially with each additional threat. I don't believe that pepperspray is effective enough unless you have some degree of control over your adversary.

To much of the advice above, I say: Hope is not a strategy. Hope is not a method. Hope has nothing to do with what is actually going to take place in what you had better assume to be a life-or-death encounter.

Most everything that you have learned is contrary to hurting another person. Violent action, to have any degree of predictable success, has to be practiced. The question as to whether you are capable of killing another needs to be answered today. Violence has to be a mode that can be switched on and off. Because, the fight may very well be in your face in that amount of time.

Increasing your odds of survival is more than just carrying an Altoids tin. An all-encompassing approach recognizes that very serious danger is about and forges the mind into a weapon always at the ready to meet that danger.

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#105970 - 09/17/07 01:01 PM Re: defense against swarming attacks? [Re: xavier01]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
I was going to add something, but decided instead to simply state that, until you are really ready to stop thinking as a potential victim and adopt a different attitude towards your fellow man, that is pretty much all you can be. You just can't help yourself until you cross the threshold. It is like quitting smoking. You can't do it until you make a willful determination to forever abandon that life, that there is no longer any choice; no turning back to it, ever. Until then, nothing out there can do it for you; not gum, not pills, not therapy. The only way you change without it being a willful commitment is to be completely removed from it for a long time, to be forced to face life without that comfort.

Combat hardened soldiers can never be victims of violence, only casualties. That is the best perspective I can share. I hope it makes some sense.
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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#105974 - 09/17/07 01:19 PM Re: defense against swarming attacks? [Re: xavier01]
garland Offline
Member

Registered: 12/22/06
Posts: 170
Loc: harrisburg, pa
This is a tough topic for me; one that I see alot of BS on very frequently. I have personal experience with it. Not from a martial arts class, but rather from going to four different high schools. One of which had a grouping of large students of one race (20 or so) picking 1 smaller person of another race (in some cases me) to beat on for the sheer purpose of boosting their low self esteem or something..

So while alot of people spout theory freely, I have experience I can quote from. I would say the person I agree with anyone who said to run (look, it's not being cowardly - it's being smart), and with pretty much everything raspy said.

I have tremendous martial experience (12+ years, multiple arts) and had a fair amount back in high school as well (around 2 years) and found alot of things that did not work. Let me state a few:

8lbs of force does not break a knee, in fact, knees are pretty damn tough.
It's very hard to gouge someone's eyes when there's 20 of them.
Kicking someone in the balls usually does really work.
Biting is surprisingly effective.
Contrary to most training, people do not come at you 1 at a time.
You cannot always run.
You can, however, actually talk your way out of alot of these things.

In the end, there were only two physical altercations that I can remember. The first time I ended up on the ground, curled up, taking many shots.

The second time, I ended up on the ground, kicking and biting. After that, they never tried it again - I made sure the price wasn't worth the admission.

But in the end, I never had to deal with that partly due to a reputation (established at that point) and more in part to an enhanced ability to talk my way out of conflicts. It's amazing what you can convince people they don't want to do by being rational.

Nike-Fu is pretty good too. I was always a strong runner, so it was helpful at times.

Hrm... what else... Yeah. I would say run if you can, cover up your vitals (neck/head, stomach, jewels), fight back only if necessary.. and if you fight back make them earn it.

I've never found anything in training that closely resembles the madness of a 10-20 person on 1 'swooping' is. But if you can train REALISTICALLY for it, do it. Honestly though, Most formal training on this kind of thing will more likely than not hurt than help.

As for nowadays I carry myself in an aggressive posture, mind my environment, carry a knife (and am quite competent with it - 5 years of kali), and try to avoid potentially threatening situations.


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#105975 - 09/17/07 01:23 PM Re: defense against swarming attacks? [Re: garland]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
Originally Posted By: garland
As for nowadays I carry myself in an aggressive posture, mind my environment, carry a knife (and am quite competent with it - 5 years of kali), and try to avoid potentially threatening situations.




Bingo!
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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#106077 - 09/18/07 12:56 AM Re: defense against swarming attacks? [Re: jshannon]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078
Quote:
I'd run...


Ah yes, the unofficial SAS motto,

Run away, Run away, live to fight another day. laugh


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