A comment and a question

Thanks to all of the great posts here, I’ve finally realized that I need to get moving with my contingency plans and not just think about them. I just got back from my physical (first in a few years) and I’ve finally scheduled that long delayed dentist appointment to look at that bothersome tooth. I realize the danger of being caught without those items taken care of.

I’ve started to put together a survival kit for everyday carry. For awhile, I carried Doug’s Pocket Survival Pak in my lunch box and thought that was adequate. However, I’ve reassessed my plans after what I’ve read here.

My main issue is that I live in the ‘burbs, but work in Boston and take the train to get there. If TSHTF while at work, the roads (lousy at the best of times) and public transportation will not be options. That leaves walking home (~ 25 miles).

I’ve started with an Army Surplus canvas messenger bag. This is rugged, has lots of nooks and crannies to organize gear and blends in with what everyone is carrying. This last part is important since the public transportation hubs here have a huge police presence and I don’t want to stand out. That is why I have shied away from belt pouches. My Leatherman sheath draws enough stares as it is.

I’ve based the contents on Doug’s PSK, but expanded it. I have more first aid supplies (including a SAM splint), rain ponchos, water bladder and purification tablets, Heatsheet blanket, extra gloves and socks, extra fire starting gear, a monocular, emergency food bars, etc.

My main question (for now) is personal protection in an urban setting. In the Peoples Republic of Massachusetts, they make it extremely difficult to protect yourself. A firearm is out of the question here. You even need an FID card to carry pepper spray. I can’t order a knife or collapsible baton on-line since they won’t ship to Massachusetts. I will probably take an out of state trip to buy these.

Any suggestions on how to deal with this issue? While I’m a good size guy with some martial arts training in my younger days, I’m not a spring chicken anymore and wouldn’t want to rely on it.

First, get in shape. Not being a spring chicken doesn't mean you aren't fit. You might want to consider going back to martial arts training. . . and then start walking to/from public transportation with a cane. They make very nice canes these days.

Is it illegal to carry a knife in your messenger bag?

ScouterMan,

Welcome to the fire! Seems lke you are well on yor way to being prepared. As for the self defense in your state, how about one of the Listserne mouthwash sprays mentioned in another thread? Hitting a bad guy in the face with 80% alcohol should give you a few seconds to make your next move.

If you have no qualms about totally destroying a bag guy look for the small aerosol spray cans of oven cleaner. That was a secret weapon a girlfriend taught me up in New York. The trick is having it readibly available if needed and avoiding collateral damage.

-Blast

RAS,
Great suggestion! The kids are always commenting on my increasing quantity of gray hair, so a cane would complete the image and be a useful tool at he same time. It would be a great alternative to my hiking staff in the above mentioned situation.

I can carry a knife in my bag, and plan too, but the selection is somewhat limited at the local stores. I am looking for a solid survival knife, like the one that USAF issues to there air crews. Any other recommendations? Even the local Army / Navy stores are limited in what they can carry here. Looks like a trip to New Hampshire is in order (any excuse to visit God's country!).

Ditto to the cane idea.

Seems to me, if I was prepping to walk 25 miles and needed some defensive capabilities, I'd be carrying a good, stout hickory walking stick.

It's a substantial deterrent, and a capable weapon in the hands of someone who knows the basics.

(I'm leery of knives; they're a totally last-ditch option. Like it or not, a knife fight means close contact with the personal fluids of a high-risk individual.)

Sometimes the simplest solutions are the best.

For me a knife is a prerequisite in any survival kit. Not for use in defense (or offense) but as a tool for cutting lots of other things that need to be cut. Doug Ritter's RSK Mk1 would be my first recommendation for a survival kit.

I believe you need to first define the risks and realities carrying a banned knife whether it be during normal times or an emergency.

1) I could be mistaken, however during and after 9/11 and the 2003 power blackouts there was no real increase in crime (aside from some looting) such as muggings, robberies etc. All the news I seen and heard were of people like you who just wanted to get home.

2) To carry a knife and to effectively use it in self-defense are two completely different realities. Although you have a martial arts background, it no substitute for essentially what is hand to hand combat fighting with a knife. Also a previous poster mentioned about the risks of bodily fluids..that to me is almost enough deterrent.

3) Is there enough crime in your area that carrying a knife in Massachusetts is worth the risk of getting caught with said knife in normal times, let alone during an emergency when authorities would even be more vigilent. According to this website the laws and penalties are quite strict and draconian in your state.

4) In any urban or rural environment, I think that you could find a lot more effective self-defense options that would serve a better purpose then a knife.

Well said. My sentiments exactly. I wouldn't be without one (or two or three). I don't flash them around in an urban environment, though, because a lot of people don't think "tool" when they see one. Discretion is important.

I agree with the above posts. Part of you defense should be, for want of a better word, attitude. Numerous studies of street crime over the years has shown that certain factors increase your chances of being a victim. Things like looking out of place (e.g. the tourist with the camera around the neck, etc), looking lost, confused, etc, being off the "beaten path," walking like you may have a physical problem and so on. My experience is some not so nice places seem to confirm this. Look like a victim and you will be one. Look like you know what you are doing and you are less likely. The trick is not to come off aggressive, but like you are not worth the effort when there are easier targets. The cane is a good idea, but don't walk like you are depending on it.

A part of this is situational awareness. Are you familiar with the walk home route? If you would not feel comfortable walking there in "normal" times, would you really want to do it in "bad" times?" is there a better route?

I also might have to walk home, a much shorter distance than your near "marathon" (about 7 miles). I think some route planning and alternative routes, along with some planned stops/safe-havens might be worth thinking about also. 25 miles at 3 miles an hour is about 8 hours: a good hike in the best of conditions, and your walk will not be in the best of conditions (nor will mine).

You are carrying socks, shove something heavy into the toe and slip the socks into an easy to reach pocket. A belt with a heavy buckle could be used in a similar manner. Possibly a squeeze bottle like a recycled mustard bottle could be filled with alcohol and tabasco or pepper juice, anything that will sting and burn.

Be sure to avoid a "sword cane." Those things are illegal in many states, and from what you said above, your state is more than likely on that list...

I was a Chicago Cop for 20+ years and would like to share two thoughts....
1 - An honest person, in defense of him/herself, their family or their country, never really needs a handgun until they really need it and then they really need it..
2 - It is far better to be judged by 12 then carried by 6.....

It is possible to conceal a small, large caliber (.45) handgun (if it is not large caliber, why carry it?), about your person and still be accessible that only a violation of your 4th. amendment rights will find it.. I know, I've done it for years..

Ken

"The right to bear arms is the right to be free!!!"

Greetings from another one from Mass. Well as far as the expanding baton, take a trip to Newbury Street and go in the army barracks, they sell all sorts of goodies there. (as far as i can tell, the only illegal batons are the spring loaded ones).

And as far as the gun, it's not hard to get a LTC concealed, I have mine. It's only an education course, paperwork, the waiting game, and a squeaky clean record.

You can get a pepper spray liscense which is different from an FID, you just feed to fill out a form at your local PD.

-Ron
(hope this post works, havent been able to post in the past!)

Attitude can be everything.

A small can of WD40 is easier to explain than a can of oven cleaner, and probably just as effective. It is also just damn useful.

The thing to remember about improvised weapons is they are just that. Weapons are created from objects that come to hand. Remember if you construct a weapon example the length of hose filled with nuts and bolts or the old biker trick of a belt made of chain that is worn outside the belt loops and the police become involved it's still a weapon and you may go to jail.

If on the other hand use what comes to hand in self-defense it's not a weapon. The object is merely something you picked up. Now if you do want to carry a concealed improvised weapon construct something that appears normal but is effective.

Example a small leather draw string pouch filled with change. This is merely your way of carrying change the makes one heck of a blackjack. If equipped with longer strings as a flail.

Loose change or a change purse can be thrown as a distraction. The loose change will thrown at the face will cause anyone to duck aside and raise their hands to protect the eyes. Giving you a few seconds to gain a couple of extra steps to flee or an opening to attack. A change purse about the size of a fist is the same as a rock. Traveling at 30 or 40 miles an hour can definitely leave an impression.

Also a can of cayenne pepper with a loose lid. The active ingredient in cayenne pepper is the ingredient used in pepper spray. This is if pepper spray is illegal in your area. A face full of cayenne will drop almost anyone. Home made pepper spray. Cayenne in alcohol out of a squeeze bottle.

There is always the can of coke in a sock for the frequent flyer. Or if you are worried about the metal can a water bottle works just as well. What screener would disallow a common pack as a carry on with a change of cloths including fresh socks and a plastic bottle full of water? Combined makes a decent black jack.

A tightly rolled magazine is a stick. What is paper made out of, “wood” of course?

Canes or hiking staff are self-explanatory. You have a weak knee so need the support.

Take a cap. The old fashion flat driving hats work best. Place several ounces of lead sinkers in the back. Add a small bag of hooks and some fishing line. Hey it is emergency fishing tackle. Grabbed by the bill and slapped smartly across the face of an assailant. Said person will be very surprised when they wake up.

A roll of change held in the fist. It is just spare change. But it definitely increases the impact. A double A mini flashlight can serve the same function. When using these types of items the most effective strike is to hit like a hammer so the hand load hits. A straight punch can hurt the fingers.

Does anyone remember the old Bic commercial where they fired the pen out of a rifle through a pine board? Sure the plastic shattered but the point remained intact. You now have a stabbing weapon.

Then along the same lines are the rat tailed combs and brushes. They can poke quit a nasty hole. And does any of the older crowd remember the fro picks from the 60’s and 70’s. Back then there were places that outlawed them as a concealed weapon, especially the metal tined ones, because they were being used effectively as one.

A 12-inch steel drafting ruler makes a nasty slashing weapon. Two things don’t sharpen or wrap part of it as a handle. Both scream a prepared weapon. You are slashing not slicing. Add some graph or drawing paper to your clipboard along with drawing or drafting pencils as cover.

A clipboard can be used as a shield to deflect an attack. It can also be used to strike edge on.

The list could go on and on. The ideal concealed weapon is not a weapon at all. Just a common ordinary object that can be used as such. So forget the fancy ninja and oriental fighting weapons. Most of those were common everyday farm implements not weapons back then. With the exception of the cap fishing kit and the homemade pepper spray all are normal but effective tools.

These are objects that you could carry among many others. Then there are environmental objects to consider. These can be found anywhere from the country to the city. All it really takes is the proper mindset to realize their potential. It truly amazes me that airport screening is so concerned about such trivial things like nail clippers. The world is full of weapons you jut have to reach out and use them.

Most government buildings where the rules are the strictest are loaded. Most have those lightweight plastic and bent rod chairs. You could easily beat someone silly with them. Now days almost every place has drop ceilings. T shaped tracks made of metal supports these. While the main runners are long the cross supports usually 2 or 4 feet long. They are not real heavy so don’t hit like a baseball bat they will cause some damage because of speed. The ends are somewhat pointy and could be used as a stabbing weapon.

Rocks, bottles, chunks of bricks, whatever as impact or thrown weapons.

A piece of pipe or a stick is rather obvious.

A trash can lid is both a defensive device and a weapon. Back in the days of the knights of old the shield number one job was to deflect the opponents weapons but was also used effectively to bash flat into someone or smash with the edge. While the old metal can lids are the best especially when turned to offensive strikes the plastic ones will deflect a strike.

The next time you are sitting around cooling your heels waiting for an appointment take a couple of minutes and look around. What is lying about loose and how it could be used. What can you pry from the walls or ceiling that could be used to slash, poke or swat with. Or the same walking down the street. After a few times of doing this deliberately it is amazing how easily it becomes seeing the myriad of objects that surround you that can be used to protect yourself.

Remember anything you deliberately carried for self-defense as long as it has a legitimate purpose the police can ignore it as a weapon. But if it appears to be a contrived weapon you could be in a whole lot of trouble. Do not fancy up or improve the object to make it more lethal. Learn how to use it effectively as it comes out of the box. If it screams weapon you will be looked on as the aggressor not the victim. If you win you will be looked at hard enough as it is. In this current PC world they will give the poor unfortunate criminal the benefit of the doubt. You as the victim defending yourself is considered in a bad light to begin with throw in a weapon or anything prepared as a WEAPON. Well you get the picture. Learn to use the world around you.

Remember C. Y. A. just in case.

If it's about the 25 mile trip back home, maybe you want one of those folding commuter bicycles that collapses to briefcase size. I think this should only come into operation if the train is stuck somewhere. If trouble happens when you're at the office I would suggest just spending the night there. You might stash a cheap sleeping bag behind your desk just in case.

This looks interesting.

http://www.real-self-defense.com/umbrella1.html

Bah, someone beat me to it. I was gonna recommend this too!

I don't own one though so I can't vouch for it. Just gotta admit the dual utility(self defense, rain defense) of it seems more viable than other options.

HOWEVER the following is a VERY GOOD recommendation off their site:

“Our FMA training teaches us to be able to use items from everyday life. An umbrella obviously resembles a stick, but the simple fact is that all the umbrellas we've seen are too flimsy for most serious purposes. THIS ONE MEASURES UP. To confirm the claims made at http://www.self-defense.info/umbrella1.html I have put it through full power two-handed baseball bat swings at a heavy bag (I didn't bother to stand on mine though). The impact generated was impressive and the umbrella still readily opened with the push of a buttton. We think this umbrella measures up as a worthy self-defense tool--and as an umbrella too. Woof!”
—Crafty Dog (Marc Denny)


Marc Denny is a VERY well respected filipino martial arts instructor (which I am a long-time student of - see my title?). The guy KNOWS what he's doing and regularly tests it in a live sparring situation (full contact stick fighting).

That just sold me. I want this umbrella.

As others have alluded to, an environmentally appropriate carry is important.

I used to have a nice survival knife in my computer bag and then realized that it could easily be misunderstood in that context (it moved to my BOB). A leatherman-type tool with screwdriver functions can easily explained in my computer case even if it had a large blade.

An ex-coworker once drew me into a sexual harassment suit against the organization (I was a witness not the target of the suit). However, I did have to explain my gun collection in court documents. I don't carry, but I do hunt and have some relic and curio guns.

It was a cheap lawyer ploy, but just goes to show how things can be twisted. For that reason, I wouldn't suggest carrying oven cleaner unless you could prove you bought it that day and had a receipt. The same goes for any OTC product which a "reasonable" person would think is inappropriate. For example, if you carried a household hammer into the DMV while complaining about your license, you would definitely get an LE intervention despite the fact that almost every owns a hammer - even if you didn't explicitly threaten anyone and it was just on your person.

The self-defense umbrella is a good non-threatening alternative. However, if some incident evolved into its actual use. You can be sure that the fact that it was not a normal umbrella would easily be brought up in a court case.

In a non-urban environment, there are definitely more choices. Be prepared, but don't be stupid.

There was a local court case where some teenagers got into an argument at a party. One guy went to his car and came back with a snow shovel swinging it around and threatening people at the party. Some kid got his nose broken. Although the guy with the shovel didn't hit anyone, his actions and the injury nabbed him a felony. As far as the jury was concerned, his actions contributed to someone being hurt - even though he didn't actually do it. Be smart and don't rely on the interpretation of any particular law to protect you.

Always choose the appropriate tool for any job. I wouldn't use a shoe to drive a nail. And I wouldn't try to use an umbrella to defend against some knucklehead with a Glock.

Apply to the State, get your carry license and get some firearms training. With emphasis on the training part.

Keep in mind the fact that disastrous situations don't necessarily happen at times that would allow you 8 hours of daylight to walk home. Assume that at least part of your trip will be after nightfall, and then decide what you want to carry to defend yourself.

Throw change? Cayanne pepper? Beat them with a umbrella?

Good grief, man! Grow a pair. Arm yourself properly. Don't bring an umbrella to a gun fight. Just because the PHRASECENSOREDPOSTERSHOULDKNOWBETTER. have had their way in disarming honest citizens doesn't mean the riff-raff have cowered to their demands. The riff-raff are packing heat and you better too if you ever have to hoof it home during a SHTF event. Otherwise you're toast. (Be sure your will is current)

Ken, you have the right idea. Get a gun! Check out the Kahr in .40SW.

How many people in NYC died walking home from Manhatten on 9-11? About none?

The Manhattan 9-11 incident was too acute to generate a real residual threat. For a durable SHTF incident, I consider what happened to Tom Cruise when he lost the car in his "War of the Worlds" rendition. Arming yourself won't be so much due to predatory circumstances, though they will still be a possibility, but more of an armed response to being overwhelmed by sheer panic. Had Cruise's character been armed with something considerably more substantial, such as an armored car with HK-9s sticking out of gunports, he'd have had little trouble navigating through that crowd. He might've come into some resistance, even someone with something capable of taking out an armored car, but the odds would've been much more in his favor.

Totally random thought, but why the sam splint? You break a leg and you're not going anywhere. You break your arm, and you're better off going to the hospital (where it's fairly safe).

You plan on splinting yourself? You ever seen/done a splint before? Kinda painful.

OK, I'll let the debates continue on the original topic.

Um, I don't exactly think using a movie like The War of the Worlds is a good idea when it comes to realistic contingency planning. In case of a SHTF situation in urban environment going low profile would seem preferable to running over crowds in an armored car with machine guns. Plus for most people an armed and armored vehicle isn't really an option and traffic congestions would likely prevent you from driving anywhere anyway. I can definitely see how a concealed gun might be a valuable last ditch resource in a serious emergency but it wouldn't be my priority. A little quiet E&E away from the crowded urban areas might be the safest option.

I was actually planning on helping others with it. I'm certified in Wilderness First Aid (though this is an urban setting). It doesn't take up much space since I have it folded flat. Maybe it's the Scouter in me.


I agree with Tom_L regarding a quiet E&E, if possible. That is my preference. My plan is to follow the railroad tracks out, since the roads will be lousy and these are a more direct route. Unfortunately, they go through some rough neighborhoods in spots. Be prepared.

Agree, low profile is the way to go. A shotgun is nice but won't stop a whole crowd and is a bit awkward to carry; an armored car is unrealistic. A concealed handgun is always a good thing, but figure the odds of a good guy having one in NYC. Guys who don't give a **** about the law will have them but not the cubicle/office workers in Manhattan. Out here in SOCAL I won't have any firearms if I need to walk home due to where I work and the carry laws. If I'm home that issue goes away.

Regarding the quiet E&E, some route review can be useful. I was looking at the Google satellite imagery of the area where I work, and spotted a wooded area and stream leading away from the area. Silly me, I never knew it was there because of all the tall buildings in front of it. You can't see it from street level. Who knows what you may see that will be of use when you look at your potential route from above?

Well, I didn't say it would be practical, just more effective. In a rubbled up urban incident, even an armored vehicle armed like Pancho Villa may not achieve bugout success.