How about a side-by-side list & evaluation of the new AMK S.O.L. kit with the AMK E.T.S. kit ?

<><>

Do you have a link. I couldn't find either an SOL or ETS kit on the AMK website.

You're probably talking about the SOLO, and you're right RAS, it looks like they don't make it anymore. The "ETS" kit is called the Pocket Survival Pak on AMK's site.

From basegear.com:

# HeatSheets Survival Blanket - Reflects 90% of your body heat back to you. Waterproof, breathable and easily repairable. Survival instructions printed directly on blanket. 96" x 60" size fits two people.
# Mini Rescue Flash Signal Mirror - Visible over ten miles. Made of a durable polycarbonate mirror with mil-spec retro-reflective properties.
# Rescue Howler Slim Whistle - Ultralight and ultrathin triple frequency whistle can be heard over one mile.
# Survival Matches - Waterproof, windproof matches in a watertight vial with striker.
# Tinder-Quick - Tinder-Quick is waterproof and burns for 2-3 minutes, giving you plenty of time start a fire.
# Survival Fishing and Sewing Kit - Fishing or sewing line, fishing hooks, swivel hooks, and safety pins.
# 20mm Survival Compass - Accurate, liquid damped, fast acting needle, with groove to accept an improvised lanyard ring.
# Duct Tape - The ultimate repair and improvisation component

I understand that there is also supposed to be a bilingual survival datasheet. The pouch looks like a miniature roll down drybag- that and the dimensions put me in mind of it being intended for life vest pockets. Not bad, I'd rather see the SparkLite here to the matches, but that would turn it into a PSP variant.

http://www.basegear.com/amk-sol-survival-pak.html

I think it was a mistake to remove the sparklite and replace it with matches. The other items can be added as needed. I would add my own SAK, its better than a razor blade and no need for AMK to add the expense to the kit. Foil is found in every home so why should they need to add it, likewise for string or mason line.
And not to forget pencil and paper, the waterproof paper might be nice to have tho.
Maybe that is the Idea behind this kit, just include the items that are not readily found in the home and let the purchaser add the common items? Still IMO the sparklite is a serious omission, I have a bunch of BSA spark tools but how common are they in the average home.

I stand corrected...but am I the only one who is asking, "What was AMK thinking when they named it that?"

Granted, if you find yourself relying on this kit you probably are indeed S.O.L., but do they have to rub our nose in it?

"Survive Outdoors Longer"=SOL
It is also a double entendre; it is supposed to be a bit of a joke.
Leavity can be a great tool to help survive the occasional epic.

I don't really understand where this product belongs in their survival product line-up.

Is it supposed to be a beefier version of the original, DR PSK ?

You have a valid point about the sparklite, however, as you said they are not commonly found in the home. I bet matches are included so that AMK can target the kit at the general public. Outside of this forum, and a few select scouts I've met over the years, I know very few people who would choose a flint over a match. With a larger target audience AMK can produce more kits, keep prices down, or at the very least sell enough kits to continue production of the product.

A more advanced user (such as yourself and the rest of the forum) can easily modify the contents of the resealable dry bag to suit your needs, climate, experience level, personal preferences, etc.

P.S. I liked the double meaning of the name, I found it to be quite funny. Then again I can have a rather odd sense of humor at times, and could easily see myself laughing when I'm SOL and need to crack open my SOL kit

Actually, I think it is designed to be even more entry level.

Signal gear. A firelighter than anyone can figure out (never did think of the sparklite as an IQ test before, Rio, but it is a good point). Shelter. And a fishing kit- it isn't really a survival kit unless there is a fishing module, just look in an military survival manual. :P

I think if they called it the Lowest Common Denominator kit, they wouldn't sell as many :), but it isn't a bad kit. It fills a slightly different niche than the PSP. Siblings, not clones.

It's funny after reading many forum discussions about various kits, it seems that no one is ever completely satisfied with a store bought kit. How cool would it be if AMK (or anyone else for that matter) offered a make your own kit option? Go onto their website, click the check boxes for the items you want, then they package it into the container of your choosing and ship it to you Then again this would probably make the kits cost more, and after shipping, you may be better off taking a shopping cart into REI...

Bump..

Now the kit also is on their website:

http://www.adventuremedicalkits.com/kit_...kitNO=0140-0727

It might always end up being a more expensive but... I think the best way is to build a kit yourself, even if it means to salvage items from other kits or buying stuff in bulk.

However, for people that are not on this forum, I would say that the best thing to do is 1) learn basic first aid and 2) purchase the AMK Ultralight .9

My two cents

I think for the general public, a portable shelter (heatsheet), some signalling (whistle/mirror) and a firestarter would be all I'd include.

I'd have, in BIG letters on the outside some basic advice (S.T.O.P or similar) plus a note that says 'Dress right, carry water, food, flashlight, pocketknife and tell someone where the hell you are going'

I'd guess 90% of the time sitting tight in the heatsheet and blowing the whistle is the best route for someone with no experience.

While I certainly agree with you, I fear most people simply don't have the patience or passion to put together a decent kit on their own.

A Ritter PSP makes a GREAT gift to encourage freinds/relatives to get "equipped". If you really care for them you could get them a PLB too :-)

For those folks, being able to start with Doug's PSP is a real advanatage and makes it much more likely to happen. Just add critical items such as a locking knife, mini Bic lighter, a few 55 gallon garbage bags, LED light, FAK, Micropur tablets, and some kind of folding 1L water container (even 1 qt Ziploc bags) and they're set to go.

Like you say, those "in the know" tend to have their favorite types/brands of kit items, but the stuff in Doug's PSP is first rate gear at a decent price.

This is an overnight kit. It's not a one day kit or even a 72 hr kit.

If I was reviewing the kit it would as an overnight kit receive a solid good to excellent.

As a 72 hour kit I would rate it as Mediocre.

That is because there is NO provision for sterilising water.

As matters stand you will be dead or dying of dehydration, dehydration induced heatstroke or hypothermia, or dysentery before the 3 days (72hrs)are up.
If there was, which I feel means adding the tin foil component from the RSK I would consider it worth a Good to excellent rating.

I could and probably should quibble about the lack of sewing needles. But that is a detail.

S.O.L.
I hope they meant it to be a little bit of a joke...

Here's my favorite line in the description, or in any description for that matter:
"We reserve the right to add, substitute, or delete items if necessary"

When I see such disclaimers, I usually avoid the product fearing it will be nothing like what was advertised. As in... Yeah... When I got my "S.O.L." I realized I was SOL because the only thing included was the drysac and duct tape.

I think the worst-name-for-a-kit award goes to AMK for their AMK 'Optimist' First Aid Kit. I don't want to be carrying an optimistic first aid kit. I would feel much better about a 'Realist' or 'Pessimist' first aid kit.

"Survive Outdoors Longer" is the meaning- if you'd read the catalog description or the packaging, you'd have seen it. However, it is undoubtedly humor on their part; personally, I think they are trying to be cute. But I also don't like the name of the Optimist, although it does at least clearly designate the targeted portion of the population.

As for the disclaimer, it is there for stupid people. They show a picture with a dark red dry bag for the SOL. If they switch it to a bright orange dry bag, or use green rather than orange sparklites in the PSP, or use a generic acetaminophen rather than Tylenol in a FAK, some twit will whine. This lets them make such substitutions that do not reduce quantity, quality or functionality based on temporary supply issues without having to change the catalog picture for one production run of a product they've made without change for a decade or more.

AMK has too long of a reputation for there to be any question as to quality. From a slop artist, I might be concerned, but those are not the words I'd every apply to Adventure Medical.

You were right with the assessment that is was an overnight kit, but I don't see the reason to then turn around and try to turn it into a 72 hour kit. I don't see ANY pocket kit as 72 hour kit- not this, not the PSP, not the BCB tin, or anyone's home build. Overnight, and then go from there, but that is becuase the tools are the same- the difference is in the consumables. The lack of the aluminum foil isn't as minor as the lack of the sewing needle, but it is a quibble given the role of this kit.

Personally, I don't think they needed the fishing kit in it, but I explain my theory as to why it is there in another post in this thread.

the PSP also has that disclaimer..

I guess my view is it is all about playing the odds.

You have to weigh the chance of an incident against the trouble of going equipped for it. Everyone's comfort level varies, and I think most of the people on this forum have thought it through.

I'd expect an overnight kit to be enough for the majority of people in the majority of scenarios. I'd always suggest carrying more kit rather than less, but sit tight and wait for rescue, avoiding hypothermia is a good start imho.

There is one reason I'd overlook the disclaimer in this particular case and it is that ETS gets some of the proceeds. However, to be completely honest, if either the Spark-Lite and Tinder Quick, Rescue Flash Signal Mirror, or Rescue Howler were the items replaced or deleted, chances are I'd not buy it.



Actually it's that I don't trust most companies to replace items with products of equal quality because most will cut corners to make more of a profit if at all possible. Also, the disclaimer does allow for the deletion of items without replacement. Similar to the PSP, if either the Rescue Flash Signal Mirror, or Rescue Howler were missing from this kit, I wouldn't buy it at the price advertised.

I think that I need to expand my remarks slightly.

As a general rule: You hope for rescue within 24 hrs. You expect rescue within 72 hrs. You pray that you ain't still waiting for rescue after 72 hrs.
Because if you are, the possibility arises that either:
A) They cannot find you.
B) They are looking in the wrong place.
C) They cannot get to you.
D) The search has been called off.

In short you are MPD. That's Missing, Presumed Dead.

That means that Momma's little boy or girl is going to have to SR (Self Rescue) themselves.

You need Water, Warmth, Shelter. In no particular order. Which ever one you want first becomes number one. Those three should be shown on every survival kit. In a format similar to the one used for the Heat-Oxygen-fuel triangle used to explain fire and how to fight it.

Food, as most of you know is a much lower priority in Desert and Temperate environments. Arctic environments are a different matter.

However, if it goes to a SR situation, the fishing kit along with whatever else you have had the foresight to add could very well make the difference between life and death.



Most of us take it as a given that you have to enhance any commercial kit.

For example: My RSK has been moved to a tin. I have added more wire (for snares). 24 more hooks, A lure and quite a lot more line. Plus MP-1 tablet, Water carrier etc.


OK, having said all that:

The Solo is is a good buy for anyone who wants to add the excellent mirror, whistle, Tinder-Quick and Heat sheet to equipment that they already have. Or as a strap on kit for a life vest, parachute etc.

I simply think that the Solo needs to be either enhanced slightly at manufacture or the the information on the package needs a "We suggest that you add the following to this kit: Knife, Tin foil (15"x15"), Bottle of purification tablets, A water carrier of 0.5 to 1 litre capacity."


For that purpose, provided that there is sufficient spare room in the pouch for supplemental equipment, it is an excellent buy at a fair price.


One thing that I do think is irresponsible, BUT IS NOT American Medicals doing is the suggestion on one of the links that this is an up to 7 days kit.

You could make pretty much the same arguments against the PSP, Leigh. You moved yours to a tin becuase you were out of space and wanted to add more- by your own actions you are giving it the same criticism you are tossing at the SOL.

And honestly, if you've got signals and an IQ over room temperature, most people are going to get found in under 72 hours if someone knows you missing. They don't mean it is good for seven days, they recommend it as an accessory for an activity lasting from one to seven days, due to the logic that (a) you're probably going to only get lost once, and (b) if you were planning on being out for seven days you've got clothing, water and food. The only way to read it as "you can go out seven days with only this and be OK", which is basically what you are saying, requires either gross ignorance of the English language in modern usage, a significantly low IQ, or intentionally misreading the statement.

And I know it probably isn't the first or second option in your case. And you can't defend against either of those- there is no cure stupid. And it sounds like you expect them to create a kit that is exactly that.

Nicodemus, in this case you are grasping at straws with a handful of paranoia. I hate to be that blunt, but it is. Anyone who's been here for any length of time knows that AMK isn't a fly by night hack job.

Let me guess nicodemus, you always sniff your apple juice to be sure you didn't get a urine sample.

For kicks and grins let's say I could be paranoid...

Regarding a company's status as dependable, some folks would say that Microsoft isn't a "fly by night company", and yet between my roommate and I we've had 2 different XBox 360s die a total of 3 times. The problem has clearly been due to the company cutting corners.

Sometimes it's not a company's fault. Not too long ago, here in the forums, we were informed that the manufacturer of a company's product let a bad batch go out. The company offered gladly to replace the item. I must admit that the product is one of my favorites and has always been dependable in my experience, but in this one instance they had a bad run. It happens. If this can happen with "tried and true" items then it makes me wonder about substitutions especially if no mention is made of what those possible substitutions may be. If a company has an itemized list and then a disclaimer that items can be substituted or deleted then the list is practically null and void for all intents and purposes from a consumer's point of view.

If AMK let me know ahead of time that I was getting a Fox 40 instead of a Rescue Howler, then most likely I'd be fine with the substitution even though it's a bulkier and less expensive item. The fox 40 is a quality replacement. In that vein, some substitutions would be acceptable. The problem comes when I don't know what I'm getting and it's covered under a disclaimer.

I was not trying to impugn AMK with my note of caution. I have several of their products (including DRPSPs) in various PSKs, FAKs and BOBs and I am very happy with them. I'm just relating the fact that when I see disclaimers like that it gives me pause as a consumer.

Simply put, a "tried and true" item could be replaced with something of lesser quality even if the company doesn't know that the new item isn't up to previous items standards.

As for the the other comment... Speculate on whatever you like...

The Rescue Howler is a Fox40 whistle. Not the original but the Micro.

Yes, thank you.

I meant the original Fox 40 whistle, which is apparently called the classic. I didn't know this. My apologies.

Ironraven,
I'm quite happy to see the stupid get Darwined. The quicker, the better. Preferably before they have children.

And yes, your quite right, I could criticise the RSK. Or rather critique. However Doug has already done that. Making no pretense as to what is good or there because "It ain't a survival kit with out a fishing kit etc" and what needs to be added.

As it happens I originally moved my RSK because the original zip-lock case was getting rather foxed. As I had quite a lot of space left over, taking the opportunity to enhance it seemed like the sensible thing to do.

If I was procuring for, let say a Scout Group, and my budget was $25 per head then I would probably, out of all the kits on the market, go for the Solo.

Arguably the Solo is an "experts kit" rather than an occasional users kit. Because the Mirror, Heatsheet, compass and drybag are bits that an "expert" would want but are either difficult or expensive to obtain individually. Providing a price pointed kit that retails them at a better price than the total cost of individual purchasing is a good marketing move.

p.s. It just occured to me that you can boil water with this kit. Using the hotrock technique. You and I know this one. However for any readers that don't:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7843851220515707771

I agree, MS is not fly by night. As a computer engineer, I will say that in my professional and personal opinion, they are a hack job. :P Bad example.

I think you just badly worded your note of caution. I have the same pause you do, when I know I'm dealing with a company that has questionable practices, products or track record. But when you've got a company you've got faith in, trust them, stop worrying. You'll have your hair longer.

Actually, I would argue that the PSP is more an "expert kit".

The SOL is the bare minimum- Joe Average, equipped with those components and the instructions included (assume for the sake of argument that they are the same as the ones in the PSP without the data on the Sparklite- I haven't seen them yet) will be able to start a fire (maybe a second one, but with three matches I'm not sure), get shelter up, and stay warm over night. And unless Joe has suffered an injury that prevents him from moving, he can usually self rescue the next morning when he can see things. If Joe is incapacitated by injury, there could be a big debate over a small mirror vs the big orange panel that is the heat sheet- I'd love to see it tested for visability- but he will have audible and visual signals. The same holds true of people who are well and truly stuck due to terrain- they can get signals out (one that doesn't require you being conscious, to), trust in your safety person to report you as overdue, and sit tight.

On the other hand, the extra gear in the PSP is less intuitive, and I've always placed shelter much higher up the list than water. Joe Average is "better equipped" in the quantitative sense, but if he can't get shelter up he is not as well equipped in the qualitative sense. Making a shelter that is worth anything without the help of sheeting takes some skill, or luck. So next week, we find Joe next to a PSP, with a foil cup, and no fire becuase he couldn't figure out the Sparklite and thus froze to death before morning when the searchers got close enough to hear the whistle and the sun was up to use the mirror. I think a more minimal, more intuitive kit is better for someone who isn't trained.

A similiar way of looking at it is this parallel- who is safer on the road, a teenager with a brand new drivers license and a 10 year old Ford, or a teenager with a brand new license and a Ferrari? The Ferrari will get you out of more trouble if you know how to use it; the Ford can't get you into as much trouble if you don't know how to use it. It isn't a matter of how capable the gear is, but a question of how capable the user is. We've all seen someone who isn't as skilled, handed better equipment, think the gear makes up for that lack of skill. I think that is were the SOL is aimed. I haven't seen PSPs at any physical stores yet; I wonder when I'll see the SOL?

Iron Raven is correct i think - even the truly stupid should understand matches and wrapping a heatsheet around themselves, and thus avoid the classic danger of hypothermia.

I don't think it is optimum, but I can think of several friends die if left with a PSP on a cold wet hillside overnight, but who might survive with the SOL.

Does anyone know they they put a fishing-kit into the S.O.L.? Just for marketing purposes?

I would remove the fishing kit and add some mp-1 tabs and a quart-ziplock.

Probably for marketing purposes. I remember when I was younger I always liked the idea of fishing with a survival kit. I never really got to experiment it and now that i'm a bit older, I understand that in a survival situation i'd rather use my time to collect firewood and make a comfy bed with branches and twigs than trying to catch fish.

It all depends. Depends on the situation, on the people. Some people seem to love the idea that they might have something to catch food in a survival situation; I assume the "entertaining" factor is what makes them happy.

I don't believe in fishing kits at all, sure they would provide some entertainment but if you ever get lost or injured for real, you won't care about fishing at all. You'll be on the lookout for people or aircraft. Which is why I believe that, in a real survival situation, a whistle and signal mirror are paramount.

I would rather use the space used by a crappy fishing kit for more Tinder-qwik pieces.

Bee, Ironraven.
Agree with you both.

I wonder if AMK are fishing for responses before actually releasing the product?

I'm not too well versed on survival making surival kits, but I noticed that the SOL doesn't seem to include any survival instrucitons while the PSP does. Maybe the SOL is intuitive enough that it isn't needed, but I don't think it would have hurt to have included instrucitons.

Jim, as I said elsewhere, I think a lot of people have the "if it doesn't have a fishing kit it can't be a survival kit- see, the manual says so" response, while holding up some military survival manual. It's marketing.

There may also be some of Doug's theory that a fishing kit will keep them out of trouble when they get bored. But also, if they get a fish hook out they are probably more likely to bring their camp closer if it turns into a multi-night affair. That will probably make spotting the Heatsheet from the air easier becuase you are less likely to have as overhead concealment along a river or pond. So there may also be some psychology involved.

The original PR made it sound like there would be instructions in this. If there aren't, I'd say it is an uncharacteristic oversight on AMK's part.

I didn't see any mention of instructions in the supply list, but I haven't been following this too closely so I could have missed something.

My mistake, after looking closer I think the instructions are printed on the heatsheet.

Actually, the original PR stuff that was referenced by people who covered the trade show a month ago is where I heard the refernces to the instruction sheet. But all but the smaller AMK medical kits have directions of some sort in them, so I would be surprised if there wasn't one in the SOL

I'll be curious to see what is in those instructions when Doug gets his to review.

Actually I don't believe that any of the AMK ultralight medical kits contain directions.

I recently purchased the .9 and emailed AMK about the lack of instructions. I also mentioned that I was a scout leader and asked about the wilderness medical book they sell. They ended up sending me a copy for free! Great customer service!

I recently received their PSP and have begun supplementing it as well...