Perhaps a bit offtopic, but I'm looking for some feedback and figured that I'd get some good advice around here Last trip my partner and I went on, she had to borrow a pack and my old backpack finally gave up the ghost after 12 years. I'm not in a rush, but I am eyeing a trip to Nahanni (a Northwest Territory wilderness park that doesn't even have roads that go into it -- only realistic access is by bushplane) in the semi-distant future, and will certainly need two packs by then. As with anyone making an investment in gear, I'd like to get the best possible pair of packs.

When I was in Japan, I had an idea for a pack, but I'm not sure if anyone makes one like this. After digging through my pack, and watching my friend and my partner dig through theirs, having to take things out and then stuff them back in to find stuff, I thought, wouldn't it be great to have a pack that had a rigid hinge on one side so that you could open the pack up like a butterfly. If you were to put velcro all over the inside of each half of the pack, and then a bit of velcro on each of your gear bags (clothing, food, stove, etc), you could stick gear bags to the outer or inner sides. When you opened your pack, it would be transformed into a "shelf", with everything out and ready for the picking -- your gear hanging off the two sides like feathers. You could hang your pack from a tree and have everything at an arm's reach if you wanted. If it starts to rain or you want to leave, just close it up and everything is all packed -- no loading it back up.

Anyone know if any such pack exists?

If not, any idea of a good pack that would be best for approximating such a thing? I.e., a long zipper on the main compartment that lets the pack open wide, good volume for it the pack's weight, reasonably priced, durable, and all the usual stuff? I'd be keeping an eye out for two packs of similar design but different sizes (I'm 6'0", while my partner is only 5'6")

Thanks in advance.

You didn't say how big a pack you wanted. I'm guessing something more than a weekender?

I've always liked Gregory packs, though I don't know of any with the features you describe. I've also found REI gear to have tremendous bang/buck. Several of their packs feature dual top-loading and U or J-shaped zippers for duffel style loading. This might be something you'd be interested in. Look at the REI Mars and Venus packs.

Kevin B.

Hi KarenRei,

I'm not aware of any backpack of a similar design you've mentioned. Good idea though but probably goes against the main design criteria most manufacturers are aiming for, that of design weight, comfort, load capacity, waterproofness and durability with ease of access well down the design list.

But the great thing is that there is a tremedous range of superb quality multiday trekking backpacks out there.

I personally would stay away from standard issue military packs as they are designed to carry very heavy loads, tend not to be very comfortable and are consequently very heavy although very robust. There are some military type packs, which are more durable constructions of good quality civilian packs and if you like Olive Drab or Camo these make excellent packs.

There is a good review of the Karrimor Sabre 60-100 available at

http://www.bushcraftuk.com/reviews/carrying-stuff/pri-sabre-60---100-karrimor-sf-range.html

You may also want to consider packs with adjustable height backs to get that perfect fit.

Another personal favourite is the Lowe Alpine Crossbow Expedition 75+15 because of the crossbow design which gives excellent load stability. If you can still find one.

The Berghaus C7 Pro series backpack may also be worth a look as it has a good design balance. (very good waterproofness designed for temperate i.e wet and damp UK conditions)

A good review is available here at
http://www.outdoorsmagic.com/news/article/mps/UAN/3098/v/3/sp/

Hi end Macpac and Force Ten have an excellent reputation also.

Sorry, yes -- volume of a typical hiking backpack (not an ultralight), somewhere in the 40-60 liters range, designed for use on long trips. Thanks!

I've noticed that ease of access is usually way down on the list :P I find that annoying, personally. It makes it so that you have to take half or more of your stuff out at each campsite and load it up the next day. And if it rains and your stuff isn't in shelter, you have to scramble to get it loaded. If it is in your shelter, you have to sleep with it. I'd gladly take an extra pound or two to have easier access to gear and reduced setup/takedown time. Backpacking isn't just about reducing strain on your body, but also about keeping your mental wellbeing in good shape.

Thanks for the info.

Well kind of what you are looking for can be achieved with Kifaru Marauder pack. You open it up by unzipping a front panel (like a suitcase) which allows you to see the entire inside of the pack. Since there is mole webbing inside you can attach pockets and pouches also made by Kifaru and organize your gear. Since pack has also molle webbing on the outside you can also attach pouches there in order to make it bigger. Using all the pouches makes it for a heavier set up but it sure keeps things organized.

You can see pouches inside the pack for gear organization (http://brunerdog.tripod.com/images/usn/m3.jpg):


This view shows you how I added more storage space on the outside of the pack. The back pouch and claymore pouch gave me additional storage and if I wanted to I could have attached two extra pouches on the left and right side (http://brunerdog.tripod.com/images/usn/m1.jpg).


Annother option is a Kifaru Xray that is a top loading/front pannel hybrid. You can load stuff from the top but also you can open up a front pannel on the bottom. Also this pack can be customized with additional pockets and pouches.

This is a pack with extra pouches:


And this is what I meant by front/top loader hybrid:


And this is size comparison:

Most manufacturers have male/female styles to their equipment lines. You will have to judge for yourself on how large a bag you will need but given the Nahanni area (rugged REMOTE wilderness) AND the need to bring all your food with you (no resupply available) I'd think you would require an expedition size pack. That's about 70-100 litres in size and capable of 50-80 lbs. There are people who have done remote trips with smaller packs but they've trimmed their gear over years of experience.

I would suggest logging onto the formun sections at backpacker.com and backpackinglight.com for more advice. But you will have to be prepared to be more specific on your needs and requirements before anyone can give you directed advice.

Advice:
http://www.adventurenetwork.com/cgi-bin/adventurenetwork/Backpack_Best_Worst_Features.html http://www.patc.net/hiking/gear/packs.html

A couple of examples below:
http://www.gregorypacks.com/prod.php?ID=6
http://www.ospreypacks.com/Packs/CrescentSeriesMens/Crescent85/

The type of pack design you suggest doesn't sound like it would be structurally sound for carrying larger loads. But there are dozens of packs out there that will give you side zipper access, bottom compartment access, removable top compartments, and strap on exterior pockets. A large amount of velcro on the exterior to attach other items is just asking for trouble - from simply attracting plants, pollen, dirt to getting yourself hung up on bushes, etc.
Most packs are also size adjustable for different back lengths and waist sizes.

Opps didn't see your follow-up post. 40-60 litres for the Nahanni IS an ultralight pack, IMHO.

I've got 2 backpacks and 60 litre Osprey pack and a 72 litre MEC pack - for an remote wilderness trip it would definitely be the larger pack for me as it is capable of handling a 50-65 lb load whereas the smaller pack is limited to 45 lb loads. Unfortunately for me, my knees are only rated for 40 lbs!

Gear skin

You could probably modify a gearskin like pack, by adding a rigid frame and a locking hinge. Although, I think the gearskin is already a good pack as far as accessibility is concerned.

Best I can find is this , and it isn't nearly large enough for your plans. Sorry...

Roarmeister is correct. The Nahanni is a very remote location and you need a backpack that is at least 70 litres (4300 cubic inches).

Also carrying a pack this size requires you to be in top physical shape. The Nahanni is a beautiful area yet very unforgiving for those who are not prepared physically, mentally and gear wise.

SD.

Interesting idea, though I have to wonder about the weight that this bag would be! Hard shell, shelves, tons of velcro everywhere. Seems like you'd have 10 lbs before you got it packed. Never heard of anything like that, the closest I found is this:
http://www.fireauthority.com/style.html?assort=fireauthority&style=BG044&cat=4312

Essentially a duffel bag with smaller bags in it, so not very good at long distance camping.

http://www.thewaterproofstore.com/paragonpack.html has a backpack harness system that can be used with their drybags or hard cases.

This is an intersting harness. I once saw a lightweight hard sided rolling suitcase thingy at Costco, possibly it could be attached to that. Or to an ALICE frame with the little load shelf attached. Of course ALICE frames, at least in my opinion, are not very comfortable, and kinda heavy...

Our local outdoor shop carries something like these from MountainSmith and I'm told Kelty has something similar but I couldn't find them on their website.

They're not quite the backpack, but they are velcro lined and they sell smaller velcro "cubes" that can be put into the larger case. They seem more suited for car camping or RV...or a really organized car kit.

Hope this helps.

Oh yeah, the one the local store carries is fully zippered and the main "bag" looks more durable. I think it's a local company that makes them so I don't have a website.

Found the Kelty ones. Closer to the ones the local store carries, but still not it.

Interior velcro, not exterior. That's what they use on the International Space Station to keep things in place -- the walls have patches of the loop side all over the place, and any object that might drift off has a patch of the hook side on it.. Seems like a good system to me.

To be honest, I don't know what the volume of my old pack was. It was a gift when I was a teenager. I ran into a site that listed "normal" backpacking pack sizes as 40-60 liters, so I listed that number. I do have a fair amount of experience -- I've backpacked in the mountains in New Mexico, the Grand Tetons, Japan, and many other places before -- so this is nothing new to me. However, my old pack fell apart on my last trip, so I have to get a new one.

That Marauder is a neat looking pack, albeit a bit small.

I'm really not familiar with pack volumes; I just looked that up on a website, which listed normal packs as 40-60 liters, ultralight 30-40, and super ultralight <30. I don't know how big my old pack was, but it was about the right size for me. Unfortunately, while it's frame is still in fair shape, its fabric is shredding badly. It was a real bit of patchwork just to keep it together last time. We're talking "stuff falling out" bad.

I'm used to carrying everything I need. I've done dry camps before. In Japan, I averaged carrying around 60 pounds with a bulging pack. That trip was a bit annoying, gear-wise, because I had to bring lots of clothes (so as not to fall into the stereotype of a "dirty foreigner" -- they're very obsessed with cleanliness). It made for a lot of bulk -- and when things got wet (from the near daily rains), weight. My partner did have a bit of trouble with 50, though, so we'll need to keep hers lighter.

How well do the Osprey and MEC open up? With my old pack, it was just a zipper for the bottom third of the pack at the bottom and a typical flap opening at the top -- certainly not easily accessible.

I'm not too concerned about food volume. On the Japan trip, I discovered a great way to pack lots of calories into little space: pasta and sauce/rice and sauce packs like you get at the grocery store. I'm not sure if you're familiar with these things, but they're a mix of dry rice or noodles and a powdered sauce, in a wide variety of flavors (everything from cajun to chinese), coming in either little cardboard boxes or aluminized paper pouches. They're designed for you to cook them for a few minutes with butter, milk, or a little bit of other stuff, plus (of course) water. They taste really good -- usually far better than backpacking meals. However, their dry volume is just as small as backpacking meals, if not smaller, and they're far cheaper. Take them out of their bulky packaging, put them into small ziplock bags with the proper amount of powdered milk, butter-flavored powder, or whatnot, and then load the individual meal-bags into a gallon bag. I was very pleased with how that turned out; I was able to fit 30-ish, possibly more, into the gallon bag. Not sure of their calorie content; at home, 1/2 usually makes a good lunch, and 3/4 a good dinner. While hiking, I found myself eating about one for a lunch and two for a dinner. So, that works out to 3-4 days worth of lunches and dinners per liter of pack space. Say, 2 days when you factor in breakfasts, snacks, and overhead. 1-2 weeks out there, that's 3 1/2 to 7 liters of space needed for food per person. Not too bad.

There's a reason why I'm looking into packs at least one year, probably two or more, before I go there I managed a 60 pound pack in Japan, so I think I'll do fine, but my partner will need more practice hikes. I have a water filtration system that's good enough that I could drink industrial runoff if I had to (three stage gravity fed -- flocculant -> ceramic -> carbon), gortex rain gear, a reliable multi-fuel stove, and so on down the list. I'll probably be looking into a lighter tent and bag for the trip, but that's something for the future. Right now, I'm just checking into packs, since I'm currently lacking one

Huh. That's really interesting. And cheap, too. I'll check into that.

A bit more research: I determined that the general category of pack I'm looking for is "panel loading", as opposed to the more common "top loading" that I'm used to. From what I've seen, I'd need it to be larger than I would for a toploader (which is fine by me; as stated, I'd gladly take extra weight for better organization).

Upd: Two packs that look like reasonbable approximations are the Granite Gear Nimbus and Stratus Latitude. You can pretty much fillet them right down the middle My only concern is some of the reviews report some sweat issues with them in hot weather. Still, the reviews tend to be very positive.

Well, at least I have a couple of good-looking choices, even if they do have their weaknesses.

Karen,
I/we don't know where you're located, but I'd recommend a stop by one of the REI outlets or other outfitter with a good selection of packs to look at. The selection at REI Extended Trip Packs is a start.

Ramen noodles, mmm yum! Yep - I'm quite familiar with them. I get either the cheap generic no names stuff from the local store or the more flavourful ones from a little Chinese store off downtown. Egg noodle, rice noodle, etc. My fav is actually to add a Chinese pork sausage chopped up and steamed on top of the noodles. I also bring along miso soup mix and hot&sour soup mix. My first day/or two out I bring an egg to drop in with the soup mix!

Oh, sorry, had to reread about the velcro on the inside - my goof.

About pack volumes - I'm sorta goofy with the mixed measurement systems. I almost never think about packs in cu. in. - just in litres and yet I'm still hog tied to thinking in lbs instead of kilos! My apologies to the Americans who had to scratch their heads a bit!

The MEC Brio 70 (72 litre) is a cheap bag - not in quality but in price. For $99 CDN (nix - it went up to $109 this year), it has all the features and adjustability that a far more expensive bag would have. Both packs are mainly top loaders but the MEC bag has 2 side zippers to add easier access to the interior, loops on the bottom to attach another small bag and the x-bungee cord on the front which will accept a lot more gear. I used it last year and the suspension easily accepted a 60-65lb load, I had never loaded it up to that weight before so I was quite pleased at how it handled. You can also buy external pockets from some manufacturers but I've never been a fan of them because it just means your pack profile is wider which makes going through heavy bush a little tougher to manage.

My new Osprey Aether 60 (60 litre) is a sleek top loader with a removable lid. I much prefer it for weekend trips. I classify myself as a mid-weighter (I can't really buy into some of the ultralighter philosophy where they chop everything to the bare bones and hope/prepare for the best situations, and prepare to suffer in the less than ideal conditions).

Given that you hauled 60 lb loads with your previous pack, I'd say your estimate of your pack size is either a bit low or you had a lot of gear on the outside.

For a week load, I will pack my 10 litre Ursack stuffed full of food. It's still pretty light (10 lbs) as I never bring canned food or fresh fruit except for the first meal.

A big plus 1 for the Kifaru. They are expensive, no getting around it, but you won't be able to wear them out. I have an Express with an E&E and a couple of side pockets that I'll put on or take off depending on how much room I need. As polack said, the Maurader is pretty close to what you described. Kifaru has interior pockets that attach to the molle webbs or you can use any manufacturers pockets that use standard molle.

The E&E is also a pretty cool setup. Attaches to the larger pack to increase capacity, pulls off quickly and has its own shoulder straps so it can be a stand alone small day pack. You can't go wrong with it.