Sue, please don't hold back, tell us what you really think But for the record, I agree. Folks who are into climbing and train to take on a major challenge is one thing. Paying big bucks for a hike to the top with the necessary gear and O2 carried by sherpas and then leaving someone behind because they're almost dead is inhuman and pathetic.

The "accomplishment" of climbing Everest no longer impresses me. Send me a postcard from K2.

Sue - I agree with most of what you say but will just note that I don't think leaving people for dead is exclusive to Everest.

In any major city in the US, millions of people walk by homeless people lying on the ground wrapped in cardboard or blankets without stopping to try to help or even seeing if the person is injured or dead. Yes, the homeless folks will probably live through the night, but it is much easier for city passersby to help them than it is for someone to drag an injured/lifeless body down from 27,000 feet. And people (myself included) make the same excuses for not helping - that the other person is in the situation they are in because of "choices" they made.

This isn't some sort of criticism of you - just an observation.

I have read it. What I think about the people who climb Chatamunga and why they do it cannot be put on this forum. It's not exactly printable.

Ok, Having said that: The only thing that most of them care about is "bagging" the mountain. They don't care about their own self preservation, anyone else, their husbands, wives, kids or bit on the side. If they did, they would not be there. The summit is in the 8000m death zone. That is the outside edge of a survivable enviroment for humans. Even with supplimental oxygen. You really need a lightweight pressure suit.

There was a program aired recently here in the U.K. An ex-Royal Marine, which is another word for Hard Man in the best sense of the word was challenged to attempt the climb. He got quite a long way up then stopped. His body would not let him go any further. What had happened was that his sense of self preservation and his desire to return to his loved ones had kicked in. So he about turned and decended.

Most interesting thing was the interview with one of the people with him. The gentleman concerned (and I use that word very loosely) did everything short of outright calling him a coward. Used terms like "not properly motivating himself" etc.

I sat there watching the program thinking ..... you jack. The Royal Marine showed far more courage and good judgement in aborting the climb. than any of the other people on the program.

One of the most difficult things to teach is: Know when it is Time To Get Out Of Dodge and having the moral courage to do it. Even when some loud mouthed ....... is sneering, jeering, calling you a coward, threatening you with violence etc and who is, if the truth be told, probably very scared.

Well, to be honest I think that most people are afraid of street people. Right or wrong that's just the way it is. And some of them can be extremely dangerous. You can't really say that about somebody dying at the top of Everest.

Norad - I'd wager that you place your life in greater danger by trying to move a disabled climber down from 27,000 feet than you do by asking a homeless person if they are okay and then calling for medical care if they are not. My guess is that most people are either afraid of/disgusted by homeless people.

I use "you" generically here.

(And - to be clear - I don't have a quick and easy solution for solving the homeless problem - I just raise it because I think it shows that there is a continuum of "not caring about other people enough to do anything about it" and that almost all of us are somewhere in that continuum and not at either end of it.)

And in some cities, if you stopped for every "homeless" person taking a nap on the sidewalk, you would never get where you are going...

I'd wager a climber risks his life more by continuing the climb than stopping to help. But that's really the point. All that matters to some of these intrepid mountaineers is making the summit. If even their own life takes a backseat to that, then the life of some unknown 3rd party isn't even going to register.

By contrast most people avoid the homeless because they are afraid they'll get a brick in the face, or something similar. Even then, if they saw one gasping out their last breaths I think most would call 911--from a safe distance.


And I do agree with your "continuum" theory. It's just that I think anybody who passes a dying person without stopping to render aid just so they can summit Everest is way, way past where most of society finds itself.

Yes, I liked it. Into the Wild (his latest book) is better still.

I enjoy reading Krakauer's books. For some reason his writing style just suits me. I liked Into Thin Air and I particularly like 'Under the Banner of Heaven' (not particularly survivalist or edc oriented but a good read).

Once you go into Himalayas you will want to come back over and over again. When you start trekking at first, when lack of the oxygen kicks in and you feel miserable and every step up might as well be a mile you question yourself: this is my time off; I should be on the beach somewhere drinking beer and relaxing. And next day is not easier by any means. And than you summit something small and you catch a bug. Every time you climb you smile and you are looking forward to aches and pains. And you want to summit higher and higher mountains until there is nothing left but Everest.

I've been to Nepal twice and worked as a medical professional on Everest and just did trekking on Annapurna Circuit. You can't describe the desire to summit the mountain that you see in peoples eyes. I've talked to both people who were going up and people who were coming down. I shook hands and drank tea with sherpas who summited Everest in double digits. Most of them know what they are getting into and whoever is cutting corners by not setting right camps, right lead ropes, being tied up or going up to fast knows the dangers and consciously chooses so for whatever reasons. Some are reckless, some work under time constrains and some have summit fever.

But in the end it boils down to the expedition money and sponsorship. It takes a pretty penny to get up there and most likely it is your only chance in the lifetime. When greed and desire overcome everything else what makes us human than tragedy happens.

Two years ago (may 06) American climber gave up his chance to summit in order to help a Canadian who was left behind to die by his buddies. This is the last you've heard of American climber since he lost his chance to go to the top. He saved a life of a stranger giving up his dreams. He did a noble thing but it costed him dearly. Many people shook his hand just to laugh behind his back. In the end I was trying to look him up and I don’t thing he was back on Everest as of yet.

And about your Marine... It has nothing to do with stamina or conditioning. His heart is in a different place than a heart of a climber. He knew when to quit because the mountain had no meaning for him. He valued his life and his family more than he valued a piece of rock. I bet you he would die for his country and his family just like some climbers would die trying to summit Everest.

I really do love Himalayas and hope that one day I will be able to summit the Everest.