http://wkrg.com/news/article/escape_a_submerged_vehicle/4171/

S (stay calm)
O (open window)
S (seatbelt)
GO (get out)

Anybody know what percentage do get out of a submerged car alive? Thoughts?

Edit: I see Doug's blog states the same with more info on tools. The acronym might help to remember.

shouldn't you unlock your seatbelts before you open the window? what if it's jammed. Even if it isn't you are losing time after your air supply has been flooded.
Simon

what simon said, first undo your seatbelt, before opening the window. Keeping the window closed, untill you have released your seatbelt, will provide you just that extra second of air.

You can easily practise this with somebody on the dry. Although it can look strange to your neightbours, when your keep on climbing out of the winodows...

From training, you stay in your seat until the turbulence has ceased, then you release the seatbelt/shoulder harness. This keeps you in position and reduces disorientation.

I think window first is best, because it is more likely to become unopenable as the vehicle sinks.

They are saying it takes between 30 seconds and 4 minutes for the vehicle to sink (which sounds about right, normally - I think the recent bridge collapse was a worst case). So you should have a few 10s of seconds before the water reaches the level of the window. Once that happens it becomes harder to open them, because the pressure of the water holds them closed. Also, it's harder to smash a window when there's water on the other side of it. It's also harder to smash when the cabin is full of water because you can't swing your arm properly.

Getting the window open or smashes is urgent. After that you can spend time fiddling with the seat belt. The cabin will take a while to flood even with the windows open.

Also, I think the window should take priority for another reason. It's the difference between a "definite" and a "maybe".

Once the water gets partway up the window, the window will definitely not work. The lateral pressure that the water puts on the window will render it immobile. Also, after some time underwater, the electronic controls will stop working (although this takes quite a while from practical testing [MythBusters!]).

However, the seat belt being a problem is a maybe. There are numerous accidents every day in which people simply unfasten their seat belts. It is quite probable that you won't even need to cut your seat belt in order to escape.

When in an emergency situation in the wilderness, you prioritize your needs by asking yourself, "Okay, what's going to kill me first?" The main obstacle to getting out of an underwater car is getting a window or a door open, not the off chance that your seat belt will be jammed. Prioritize accordingly.

Additionally, if you are thinking that opening/breaking the window first will let in a rush of water which will block off your air supply, consider these points:

• If the water is several inches up the window when you try to open it, you've likely waited too long to try opening it anyway. As stated above, the lateral force of the water pushing on the window will render it immobile. Your only choice is to break the window at this point.
• If the water is several inches up the window (not over your head) and you break the window, water will start rushing in. The water rushing in will not be over your head and impeding your breathing unless the force of the water starts throwing you around in the car and disorienting you.
• If the water level outside the window is over your head but you still have a large air pocket inside the car, then the chances of being thrown around and disoriented by the rushing current of water after you break the window is even greater. Leaving you seat belt fastened will prevent being thrown around. Additionally, as long as you are still poised next to the door (seat belt), you may have the option of simply opening the car door before you swim out. (Breaking the window while completely underwater equalizes the pressure very quickly, so the car door should open unless damage to the car frame and body have jammed it shut.) This will allow you swim out of the car quite a bit easier than trying to fit through the window.

I think you might want to re-evaluate the order of window & seatbelt if the vehicle landed upside down, or driver side down.

Evaluate the situation as it is, not as it should be, you want it to be, or someone else says it will be.

Sue

Very true. It is always prudent to evaluate your situation individually and think about what takes priority. There are other cases as well in which it will be more prudent to take your seat belt off first, such as getting a child out of the back seat and ready to escape (as you pointed out in another thread).

Those situations, however, should basically be considered exceptions to the rule, IMO. Sort of like the "stay with the vehicle except..." and "shelter takes priority over water except..." rules.

If your car lands upside down, the driver's side window is against the ground or otherwise blocked, or you need to secure a child from the back seat, the seat belt will pretty obviously be stopping you from doing what needs to be done. Hopefully, you will be calm and collected enough to realize that this is the case and take appropriate action.

P.O.G.O
Pop belt - Open Window - Get Out

Florida leads the country in immersion drowning deaths. Their Highway Patrol and Dade County's Fire and Rescue point to the number of bodies that they have recovered in submerged vehicles belted in and window down as a good reason to take your seatbelt off first.
They have had this up on their website since 2001. http://www.hsmv.state.fl.us/news/2001/pr031401.html

On this webpage, www.escapetip.com there is a video from a Florida news team where the reporter is completely briefed on how to exit a submerged vehicle still forgets his belt and has to be rescued. I’ve seen others. The reason is simple. People are people. Treating a housewife or accountant or bartender like a fighter pilot or police officer is not prudent. Let me explain. For the average person, going into the water in a car is going to come as a complete shock. At best they’ve seen a news piece on it or read a story in a paper or magazine. Pilots and cops have been trained for this scenario. Joe and Jolene Average is best served by taking into account that their instincts are likely to be stronger that their intellect for the duration of their ordeal. Mr. or Ms. Professional will transition into a response ingrained by training could do well venting the water first, fighting a potential gasp reflex, then undoing their belt and making their way out of a vehicle. For The Average family, not a good idea.

In my humble opinion, the best way for people to survive a vehicle immersion accident is to have a short, concise plan that they know how to put into action the instant the vehicle hit the water. (the fewer steps that this plan has the better) Reminding someone to stay calm after their car has just careened into water may not be the best use of an action item.

POGO is real simple. A 2006 study by the University of Winnipeg reaffirms its efficacy and wisdom. During this study, the researchers performed nearly forty repetitions of a vehicle immersion and researched as much history from around the world on this issue as they could. Their conclusions were published in a comprehensive report that blamed some vehicle immersion deaths on multiple issues including; the mish mash of information available, the widely distributed advice to wait until the car fills with water (which as it turns out doesn’t work) the idea to use a cell to call for help, having a glass break device in a bad location, and there were other reasons as well. His full report suggests keeping glass break devices in obvious places in cars and using them immediately. On this page is a brief synopsis of some of his views http://www.albertarowing.ca/documents/GiesbrechtandWilkerson.asp Item 1 has a small blurb.

Here are some explanations of my views of a solution to this dangerous problem.

First, you should immediately unlatch your seatbelt and insure that everyone in the car does the same. Some experts disagree with me here. Their argument is that water coming into the cabin will toss you around the vehicle. They sometimes base their opinion on demonstrations done with huge aircraft water submersion trainers and the techniques taught to our nation’s military aviators and law enforcement professionals. Sometimes they are just accepting and forwarding what they heard thus dispensing their own conjecture. In reality, the average passenger car will take on less than 1000 gallons of water when completely full. The design of a car means that when the driver side window is displaced, Water will cascade over the top of the height of the body of the door and literally fall into the lap of the driver. In effect, the first few hundred gallons of water that enters the car will pin the driver in their seat. Then the flow will slow slightly until the car fills completely. The process will be quick but not too violent due to the relatively small amount of water needed to fill the compartment, the relatively small space the water must occupy, and the seats transmission humps, and other irregularities inside a vehicle interior that impede the smooth flow of water. At issue here is that the shape and characteristics of a car with a single side window missing is more akin to a soda bottle being held under water and filling up than a flower vase being held under water and filling up. A car, like a bottle, has to let air out of the same opening that water is rushing into. In relation to the size of the interior space of the vehicles passenger compartment, the opening provided by the window is small. This has a slight constricting effect on the amount of volume that can pass either direction (this is important because as water tries to get in, air is trying to escape.

Numerous videos show that the rate at which water enters the vehicle and the duration that it flows is not overwhelming at its worst. A vase has a large opening and when placed under water it fills immediately and with a large rush of water. This rush of water is the "picture" that some experts want to paint but it simply is not so. The last reason that the seatbelt comes off first is not so obvious. When the water hits you, you have a relatively small chance of experiencing a gasp reflex and aspirating water. In a second, you may be choking. In other scenarios the water may increase a sense of panic, still other immersion victims mah lose track of their conscious directives and start acting on instinct. (stranger things have happened when people face peril. In an instant a person is covered in water they want to, and should be leaving, not messing with a seatbelt. If for any reason, even if they are not choking, terrified, or drawing a complete mental blank, if the belt does not easily unlatch, then the true meaning of panic would be immediately apparent.

One individual actually made up his own acronym SOS GO even though POGO had been the accepted standard for quite some time. During all the chaos that currently surrounds defining the correct procedure to exit an immersed vehicle, this clunky and hard to remember acronym only served to add to the confusion (remember here that Dr. Giesbrecht’s research shows that confusion serves to get people killed also that his research clearly shows that popping the seatbelt first is the superior methodology). The only further thing I think that is worth mentioning about SOS GO if I have not been clear up to this point is that it advocates taking your belt off after breaking the window. I think you know my feelings on this. In the process he's trying to displace the standard POGO Pop Belt, Open window, Get Out. That has been the standard for years (remember the Florida firefighters and the people they find still buckled in with the windows down).

Although not mentioned here, there are some people that still advocate trying to open a door. This is not a good idea. The car will fill quickly with water causing it to sink too quickly. This is especially true if other people are in the car. A review of accidents over the past few decades illustrates that it is common for one person to get out and others to perish trapped in the vehicle. Parents have been implicated in killing their children because they got out first and could not get back in to save their kids. I wonder if the deck was stacked against them? Pressure differential could cause the door to close, trapping people inside or trapping loose clothing or hair. The now flooded vehicle is heading toward the bottom with these poor souls being taken along for the ride.

Did I mention that I feel you should pop your seatbelt, smash the side window, and get out of the vehicle as soon as possible and before the car goes under water. Speed is the key.

Some people report ad-nauseum that the electronic windows should work for a time after the car enters the water. Pinning your hopes to this idea will work for many people. For others, it may prove a death sentence. If the battery fails while the window is in mid travel, you now have a moderate volume pathway for water to enter the vehicle but an opening too small for the majority of occupants to exit safely. Ask every manufacturer to guarantee that their windows will continue to operate under water. Not a single yes will be forthcoming. The military spends a great deal of money and effort trying to isolate their electronics from water. The reason is simple; dirty water (water with any impurities) acts as a comprehensive conductor usually making an exposed circuit path invalid and usually defeating any switching properties of said circuit. Water dissipates the efficiency of a circuit and torque cannot be developed by an affected motor since an induction field can not form. When this occurs, said motor useless.

Many people still talk about the need to equalize pressure by letting the vehicle fill as a way making the door easy to open. Equalize the pressure is a last resort move. It does not always work; it exposes the occupant to peril and provides the least chance of success of surviving an immersion accident. In a way it's like CPR. It doesn't really work all that well but by this point, it's all we got left. Watch this Top gear video http://www.flixxy.com/escape-sinking-car.htm to see what I mean.
Other videos that I have seen, accident information that I've recorded, and reports that I've read, demonstrate that this tactic is wrought with danger. One needs to remember here that cars are full of air and because water has greater pressure than air, it will be difficult to open the door. Many still insist that as a primary tactic, one should let the car sink to equalize air and water pressure, it is thought that at this point, one should be able to open up the door or window. Should be able to, is still not good enough since over 16,000 people have died this way since 1960. Keep in mind that if there was ever an accident where Murphy and his laws will be waiting at every turn, a car crash into water has to qualify.

On TV, a safety expert checks with the safety divers, and the "victim before lowering a vehicle into the water at about .5 miles an hour. In real life it happens at 40 miles an hour in the blink of an eye. On TV, the vehicle is tested to insure the windows and doors work. In real life an impact with a guard rail deforms the door so the window can’t roll down all the way, or the fuse box blows. TV demonstrations are usually done in daylight at the docks. Real life accidents can happen at night in the tall reeds of a swamp. TV demos have rescue personnel standing by. Real life accidents require a seven minute response from the local responders and fifteen minutes to suit up for diver safety. TV reporters often do the exercise several times before they finally get it right. In real life, this is a PASS / FAIL or better put, PASS or DIE exam.

In the end, the best practice is to get free of all constraints and don’t encumber yourself with new constraints on the way out. Popping your belt, smashing your window and getting out gives you the best chance for success. It works the quickest which in the Canadian study directly correlates with success. In my opinion, every vehicle should have at least some simple glass break tools in all rows and they should be accessible to both sides of the vehicle. What if you were trapped in a car on fire and getting out on one side was better than the other? What if debris blocked one path? I’m ready to hear any and all opinions.

Thank you.

of course that happens. I've heard of airline pilots forgetting how their seat-belts work, too. I don't think you are any more likely to forget if you open the window first.

It sounds like they didn't compare POGO with SOS-GO. From what you say, the problems were not with SOS-GO, but with other factors.

The argument made in this thread is that the window will become unopenable if you leave it too late.

Yes, I think it's accepted that that's a bad idea. Actually I think it's a misunderstood idea. It's really saying, if you can't open the doors/windows immediately, don't give up, because there will be another chance later. It shouldn't be taken as saying, if you can't open the doors/windows, there's no need to break the glass.


I suspect in most cases, both actions can be completed quickly enough that the order doesn't matter. The windows on my car are automatic - press a button, release, and while they are sliding down on their own I can be taking the seat belt off.

If the electric windows don't work and you have to smash them, then it's a different kettle of fish. You'll need to find something to break them with, and that will probably be easier with the belt off. Or you might need to try a different window.