Hi Tom,

Thanks for the tip to find Ferro Rods on ebay, that is a very good price compared to what I pay in Ontario.

I have been reluctant to personally order survival type equipment, especially in large amounts, from outside of Canada.
I do not know about Importation/Customs Regulations and if the cost goes up significantly with duty, taxes and shipping.

If anyone has knowledge on this topic please reply as there are many excellent survival tools for sale in the USA that are just not available here.

Thanks,

Mike

Purchasing goods for your personal use or consumption from the US should not be a problem. You may well have to pay your local sales tax/VAT.

Importing goods for resale is another matter. It's best to find a friendly wholesaler to order for you to handle the import/export issues.

Frank2135

I have just P.M. you re spark-lites.


I must admit to being impressed with your efforts. Only suggestion I can make is to loose the paper matches in faviour of wooden one's. If you have one box per two kits (what ever you do- make sure you get boxes with striker boards both sides. Some manufacturers only put one on the box. Tight-wads!)you can put so many matches in each container along with the striker board.

Volunteers rock! Kudos for working with these kids. Survival skills build self-confidence and self-esteem, and maybe a chance to learn trust and teamwork. Seems to me you could change the way they view and interact with the world -- and change their lives for the better. (Enough from the soapbox.)

Scrounging survival gear is a favourite topic of mine. Some ideas:

Knives:
You don't need fancy knives to teach basic knife skills. Personally, I think a short, fixed blade is preferable for first-time users.

I made my young nephew a first and second knife from discarded/broken kitchen butcher knives that I get for free. The local secondhand store knows I can recycle them. As long as the blade is sturdily attached to the handle, just cut down the blade to about 3" which makes them much less susceptible to breaking.

The first one I made was rounded and blunt, except for a recessed notch (1-1/2" long) with a sharp cutting edge. Nearly impossible to hurt yourself by accident, yet you could do a surprising amount of wood carving with it. The second was made with a full-tang 420-J2 1.5mm Japanese steel butcher knife. The cutting edge is about 2-3/4 inches long and is straight, so it's easy to learn sharpening skills. The end is very slightly angled down to the sharp tip. I wrapped some red electrical tape around it so it's hard to lose in the grass. Very sturdy and takes a good edge - I still use it to make kindling at my fire pit.

BTW: you can use a low-powered angle grinder for cutting and shaping these, if you're careful. Fast, light strokes will not harm the temper, in my experience. Finish with a file.

If you talk to secondhand/thrift shop managers, explaining what you're doing, they may collect a bunch of blades for you and give them to you for a song.

Also, there are lots of sources for free steel that will hold an edge. Chop an old lawn mower blade in half, and you have a crude but effective tool. Farmers discard high-carbon blades from the sickles of swathers, combines, haybines by the bushel. Hockey arenas have loads of broken wood-composite sticks that make perfect handles.

I think kids will learn more by improvising with different items. This is a place where unconventional, creative thinking can be rewarded with success and praise.

Wire saw:
The multi-strand variety works surprisingly well. You could cut one in half for kids' use. Add wood toggles for comfort, and tape the sharp ends. I carry one of these on airlines and they don't mind. Perfect for your "no weapons" kids.

Pot:
I wouldn't bother buying pots. A coffee can works brilliantly as a billy pot. Tamp down any sharp spots on the rim, punch a couple of holes for a wire handle, and let them do the rest. The hot chocolate will taste better if you boil and discard the water the first time.

You can also use empty aluminum cans from soda/pop/beer. I've found these (along with empty Bic lighters) in abandoned camps, or floating in rivers, in all sorts of places, so they're a real-world survival asset. Cut open the top partway, so you can lift it with a stick, and boil the heck out of it before you use it. Perfect for practice and demonstrations. Make sure they don't have a coating inside (Guiness cans don't work; there's a coating and a plastic fishing-float widget inside).

Matches:
I don't mind paper matches in kits (airlines again) as long as you have a backup method. If you use them right, they're quite effective. Don't tear them off; cut down along the match right to the bottom of the matchcase, and tear off about four at a time. Now you have a hot match with a long handle. (I also notice that paper matches survive getting damp and drying out much better than wood matches. Had some in an open can in an open shed, and 10 years later they still light. Wood matches in the same can are useless.)

Hope some of this is useful. Keep up the good work.

Hi Dougwalkabout,

Thank you for the detailed reply.

I have already done the can as a cooking pot with the kids but never thought of having them make their own knives. The older group of kids I work with in the winter would really enjoy this and I will start looking for some suitable steel/handles now. Great Idea!

I also never thought about the wire saws not being weapons, nice.

I agree with you about Thrift Shops being a great place to find outdoor gear. Usually I find nice metal containers there but have also found some great deals on outdoor clothing (e.g. heavy wool pants, shirts and even Goretex coats). On the weekends when I do not have to work, I try and go to the yard sales with my wife, lots of good outdoor stuff found there.

The kits I have made with the kids so far have been a real compromise between size, cost and quality. My personal kits are much more extensive but I hope that this basic kit and instruction will spark an interest in the kids to learn and prepare before a problem arises.

Your paragraph about Survival Skills promoting trust, team-work, self-confidence and self-esteem in children was very well said and I think this is why I stay involved even during the trying times. Many of the children I taught last week come from a much more difficult enviroment than I was raised in or that my 3 children live in. After discussing the production/use of fire in history and then having each child create their own fire, cook over it and then explain to me how they safely put it out was definetely the highlight of my session last week.

During my lecture I did a short session on "Wilderness Knowledge" (how to keep yourself out of a survival situation) I also did a brief talk on "Bush Stupidity" (things you do in the life that are so stupid that they risk your life or the lives of others). The kids listened well and provided lots of examples, but I hope I did not come across to strong or heavy?

This teaching thing is an ongoing work in process for me, please keep your suggestions coming.

Thanks for the encouragement, I appreciate it.

Mike

Online source for 55 gallon orange bags:

http://www.spectrumbagsonline.com/categories.php?cat=7

I've purchased from them several times. Very good quality stuff.

SwampDonkey,

I'm not sure how close you live to the US Border, your location is listed as Northern Ontario (that's a very big area!). If you are within reasonable driving distance to the Soo you may find it worthwhile to open a mailbox in the US and have items sent to you there (USPS PO Boxes cannot have courier-UPS, FedEx, DHL, etc. packages delivered there). You could then bring them into Canada and pay GST on the goods (assuming no prohibited items).

Purchasing items in the US and having them shipped to Canada increases the shipping cost greatly (usually double). If you use a commercial shipper (like UPS, FedEx, etc.) they will usually charge a minimum $25 customs brokerage fee as well as getting billed for GST and possibly duty. If the location will ship them to Canada, use the Postal Service as they do not charge customs brokerage fees.

I previously lived in Canada and I appreciate your efforts to teach the kids. Anything we can do to help the next generation is a good thing.

Hi Mike in N. KY,

Thank you for the detailed reply about shipping survival items from the US into Canada. I live about 7 hours drive from SSM so a Postal Box in the US proabaly would not work for me, it seems like US Postal Service is my best bet.

Folks on this thread have been great about sending me information on where to access terrific gear in the States. I have ordered items from Cabela's before and it usually ends up costing double the catalog price (in Canadian Dollars, including the exchange rate, Duty, GST, Customs Surcharge, Shipping ...). I usually wait until one of the Canadian Mailorder Catalog Stores (LeBaron, SIR, MEC, Russell's ...) stocks the item I want (often about 2 years after the USA stores) and purchase it then.

Surfing the US stores on the Internet does make it very tempting to place an order for the very interesting stuff you have available south of the border.

Take care,

Mike

Hi Ken,

Thanks for the link, those orange trash bags are twice the size of the ones I am issuing to the kids now. I am going to search the net to see if they retail their product from a Canadian Supplier.

Mike