Has anyone tried to purchase the Brunton/Silva button compass? This is the small ball shown in Doug's pocket kit. Apparently, these are very hard to find, and dealing with Brunton/Silva is even harder ( I tried.) I found some for sale at Cabelas',but @ $5 when suggested retail is $3. Doug put me in touch with a retailer in Penn. He will try to order a quantity if there is sufficient interest. He also has trouble dealing with the company. Makes me wish I kept those Cracker jack compasses!<br><br>

>>Doug put me in touch with a retailer in Penn. He will try to order a quantity if there is sufficient interest.<<<br><br>I'd go in for a few. I prefer the Suunto Clipper for the wristband, and the rotating bezel doesn't hurt.. but, small as it is, there isn't always room.<br><br>>>Makes me wish I kept those Cracker jack compasses!<<<br><br>Somewhere I have a genuine Cracker Jack plastic whistle from the 60's that's absolutely piercing (two-tone dissonance) and half the size of the smallest survival whistle I've seen (ACR). You gotta wonder.<br><br><br>

Mentioning the Cracker Jack plastic whistle (Brunton button compass thread) brought something else to mind- does anyone remember a cheap novelty item called a “permanent match”, or sometimes “metal match”? I had one that I took on a couple of backpacking trips in the 70’s- it was simplicity itself, a tiny hollow plastic square, maybe 1” by 1.5”, attached to a keychain (easily removed), filled with wadding of some sort. There was a tiny strip of artificial flint glued to one edge, and a hollow-tube striker with a wick in it that screwed into the top. You took the striker out, poured a little lighter fluid into the hole, and replaced the striker so that the fluid would wet the wick. Anytime after that, you could unscrew the striker, scrape the end against the flint strip, and have a flame.<br><br>As I say, I took one of these on a couple of backpacking trips, just as a convenience- it weighed next to nothing, and it was easier to light a gas stove (through a Svea windscreen) with the match-like striker than with a bulky lighter. <br><br>Seems like it would have some advantages for an ultralight survival kit, though- it used common lighter fuel (would probably work with anything- jet fuel, kerosene, gasoline), but it sealed up pretty tight (o-ring? I don’t remember) so the fuel would not evaporate over time as it does in a Zippo style lighter, it was waterproof. It weighed almost nothing, was very flat and small (probably less bulky than a book of paper matches), it got you a flame, not just a spark, and the striker could be used for sparks even if the fuel was gone. The “flint” strip was very, very thin- but they claimed thousands of lights, and it probably really was good for hundreds. It can’t have carried much fuel, but it didn’t evaporate, and I didn’t have to refuel during a couple of week-long trips, using it every day.<br><br>Just a thought.<br><br><br>

I still have one of those *Permanent Matches*. Piece of junk. Almost any other firestarter is better: matches, ferrocerium rod, Bic lighter, Spark-lite. <br>A couple of months ago, I filled it up and used it, to remind myself that it is as you say, a *cheap novelty item*.<br><br>Walter<br><br><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Walter on 07/21/01 01:53 PM (server time).</EM></FONT></P>

Walter,<br><br>I guess I could point out that you've told us what you think, but you really haven't told us why.<br><br>Or I could mention the possibility that we got somewhat different impressions because we examined different objects; I just checked on eBay, and found three different versions of this, all answering pretty much the same description, but obviously from different manufacturers.<br><br>

I called Brunton a while back and inquired about purchasing the mini compass, but was told they only sold them in lots of 50. When I pressed the issue, telling the rep that I was assembling a mini survival kit for aviation use, she paused, asked for my address, and kindly mailed a single one to me for free as a 'sample'. I would suppose if they were to receive a rash of similar requests, the flow might stop. But perhaps if some kind person would buy a lot of 50, others could then easily obtain single items more easily...<br><br><br>

NM<br><br>

It's a shame a company with a fine product can't match it with adequate service. I have a dealer Doug suggested working on a supply; Barry Schuchart of blue Line outfitters in PA. He doesn't have a website yet,but his email is blshuchart@netrax.net Ill keep you all advised<br><br>

Chris,<br><br>Thanks for the plug. I have found it extremely difficult to deal with all of the big compass manufacturers: Silva-Johnson Worldwide Associates, Suunto and Brunton. Life as a small business these days is quite a challenge at best. I truly appreciate each and every customer.<br><br>Barry L. Schuchart<br>President<br>BlueLine Outfitters, Inc.<br><br>

If you don't want to mess around with mail order, you may be able to find button compasses at local camping stores as part of a zipper-pull or wrist-compass. You can pull the button compass out of such items with a little work. They are normally held in with double-sided tape. Pliers help, but strong fingers will work.<br><br>

Hi Presumedlost,<br><br>I have several of those "Permanent Match" containers and the advantage really is that it keeps full with the fuel you put in there for months without evaporating as with an regular Zippo.<br>They cost next to nothing ($2) in Europe and come in Black and Blaze Orange. <br>The only thing you'll experience it that if you keep it lighted to long you'll burn your thumb/finger you're holding the "match-es" metal stick with. These are most times made (turned) from brass and heat up quiet fast.<br>On the other side this saves fuel as you won't keep it on to long .<br><br>I just gave the one I have had dangling from my keychain to a friend who's going for a year to Australia he really fancies it.<br><br>Best Scouting wishes from Holland,<br><br>Bagheera<br><br>

>>They cost next to nothing ($2) in Europe and come in Black and Blaze Orange.<<<br><br>I haven't seen them for quite that cheap over here.<br><br>>>The only thing you'll experience it that if you keep it lighted to long you'll burn your thumb/finger you're holding the "match-es" metal stick with. These are most times made (turned) from brass and heat up quiet fast. On the other side this saves fuel as you won't keep it on to long .<<<br><br>It really is probably just as well- the "match" tube (much smaller than the reservoir) can't hold that much fuel, and presumably, once it's gone, the wick itself would start burning.<br><br>Again, I don’t see what’s not to like for a micro-kit (sorry, but these Altoids size tins are beyond “mini”). They weigh very little (once you get rid of the key ring attached), they’re cheap, tiny, flat (so they pack well), waterproof, simple, they use common fuel(s), and they get you a flame instead of just a spark, which greatly increases what you can use for tinder. As you say, they retain fuel without drying out for months at least (probably indefinitely), and if the fuel is gone, you still have a ferro-cerium rod to use for making sparks.<br><br>You can certainly say that they are cheaply made- mine had a polystyrene body (cheap plastic) but it seemed to have thick enough walls. I’ve seen several makes of these, some with metal bodies, but those look much thicker and heavier, and I don’t really think that they’d stand up better to being stepped on, for instance. The sparking rod is very thin, and I doubt that it would really last for the thousands of lights advertised, but… this is emergency use we’re talking about here. Buy another one when your'e back safe at home.<br><br>So- what’s not to like? About the only real negative I see is that they’re not nearly as available here as they used to be (lots of novelty shops had them, and they were premiums for gas stations and cigarettes). I'm seeing the metal ones more and more, and the plastic less.<br><br>I think I've talked myself into it- I haven't seen mine for 20 years or so, I think I'll order a couple... <G><br><br><br>