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#98731 - 06/29/07 12:44 AM Re: Woman who gets lost in woods is found thanks t [Re: MartinFocazio]
Alex Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 1034
Loc: -
Anyhow, if you have GPS your chances are higher. Just learn how to use it properly.

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#98754 - 06/29/07 04:43 AM Re: Woman who gets lost in woods is found thanks t [Re: Alex]
DeathtoToasters Offline
Member

Registered: 06/18/07
Posts: 147
Loc: Southern California
Well then I am glad I didn't have the GPS then smile

_________________________
"Death to Toasters"-John Connor

"All Hail the Power of Bauer"

"Only the Paranoid Survive" - Andy Grove

"Why is it called the American Dream? Because you have to be ASLEEP to believe it!" - George Carlin

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#98814 - 06/29/07 09:47 PM Re: Woman who gets lost in woods is found thanks t [Re: MartinFocazio]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
46? 45.456 72? 22.32 is not at all the same as
46? 45' 06" 72? 22' 32"


Indeed 780 yards difference assuming the same datum is used i.e WGS-84 for example.

If the 911 call handler has Internet access, the conversation could be along the lines, (this works for Degrees Minutes Seconds DMS coordinates)

Open Internet explorer,

enter on the address bar the following; www.maps.google.com ,

type at the flashing prompt just below the google logo, just above where it says search map, the following;

type forty six space forty five space zero six forward slash seventy two space twenty two space thirty two and click on search maps button at the end of where you have just typed.

As you can see I'm in Kazakhstan if you zoom out using the zoom bar on the left of the picture map.


If the GPS gives the coordinates as Degrees, Minutes with Decimal Seconds (DMM) you would ask the operater to search;

type forty six space forty five point four five six forward slash seventy two space twenty two point three two


If the GPS gives the coordinates as Degrees decimal (DDD) you would ask the operater to search;

type forty six point four five four five six forward slash seventy two point two two three two


Could get yourself out of a lot of trouble if you understand the google earth latitude longitude format and can instruct the operator on how to use google maps.

In the UK we don't really use DDD,DMM or DMS mappings but the OSGB datum giving grid references such as NO369741 (you can find me here), it is so much easier to use and distances between two grid references allow the distance between the two to be calculated easily. smile The Garmin eTrex GPS will output its location both in WGS-84 and OSGB map coordinates. The OSGB map coordinates are then exceptionally easy to locate on a UK ordnance survey map either 1:50,000 or 1:25,000.










Edited by bentirran (06/29/07 11:25 PM)

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#98846 - 06/30/07 06:08 AM Re: Woman who gets lost in woods is found thanks t [Re: ]
Alex Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 1034
Loc: -
UK is as always the cause of the entire world's confusion about the simple measurements...

google:
Your search - NO369741 - did not match any documents.


Edited by Alex (06/30/07 06:10 AM)

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#98852 - 06/30/07 12:52 PM Re: Woman who gets lost in woods is found thanks t [Re: Alex]
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
At the rist of getting in the middle of yet another revolutionary war, did you seach google, or google maps? When I looked for NO369741 in google maps, this is what I got:

Your search for NO369741 around this map area did not match any locations.

Still zip, but zip in a different place maybe...
_________________________
OBG

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#98866 - 06/30/07 04:59 PM Re: Woman who gets lost in woods is found thanks t [Re: OldBaldGuy]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi OBG,

Google earth is good but it is not perfect (something for the future development perhaps), it doesn't allow you specify a local datum. It doesn't even specify the datum it uses but I suspect as the software is being designed with GPS in mind then the datum will most likely be the default one for most GPSs. WGS-84


Firstly you have to convert the OSGB36 coordinates into WGS84, you can do it here at

http://www.movable-type.co.uk/scripts/latlong-gridref.html

It even gives a script for the spatial transformation from the OSGB36 to WGS84 if anyone is interested.

When you plug in the coordinates NO369741 you get Lat 56?51&#8242;17&#8243;N and Lon 003?02&#8242;02&#8243;W

As google earth uses North (latitude) East (longitude) notation by default you would have to specify these as the conversion gives a North (latitude), West (longitude).

For the Google Earth this can be done if you enter N 56 51 17/W 3 02 02

or 56 51 17/-3 02 02 in the standard google earth notation.

This again could cause some problems if the notation isn't specified i.e. N(lat) E(lon) or N(lat) W(lon) as well as the different formats such as DDD, DMS or DMM etc


Or you could just plug in the OSGB map reference into the ordnance survey maps website at

http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/oswebsite/

just plug in NO369741 where it says 'place name or postcode' then hit go. The accuracy is 100m by 100 m. To specify a more accurate map reference you would just make the coordinate an 8 or 10 digit number. Such as

NO36917415 - accurate to 10 metres
NO3691274156 - accurate to 1 metre

distances between grid references are easy to calculate, just use Pythagoras Theorem.

Example Calculate the distance between NO369741 and NO243861

Distance = Sqrt((243-369)^2+(741-861)^2)*100 = 17,400 metres away!! Anyone want to calculate the grid bearing and the magnetic bearing from NO369741 smile










Edited by bentirran (06/30/07 09:59 PM)

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#98893 - 07/01/07 01:07 PM Re: Woman who gets lost in woods is found thanks t [Re: ]
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
Oh my God. A few minutes ago I thought I had a pretty good handle on the coord stuff, now I feel soooo uninformed. Why can't there just be one simple way to do this stuff???
_________________________
OBG

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#98897 - 07/01/07 03:00 PM Re: Woman who gets lost in woods is found thanks t [Re: OldBaldGuy]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5264
Loc: SOCAL
I preflight my GPS with local landmarks and other things like the location of my car. If lat-long doesn't work, then just give them a bearing and range to the parking lot or some other landmark that's well known. Get them with a mile and use your mirror/chem light/whistle/laser beacon/surveyor tape to get them the rest of the way.
_________________________
Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
Okay, what’s your point??

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#98899 - 07/01/07 05:26 PM Re: Woman who gets lost in woods is found thanks t [Re: Russ]
DeathtoToasters Offline
Member

Registered: 06/18/07
Posts: 147
Loc: Southern California
I would call this one he ck of a evolution of a thread.

The knowledge in this thread is astounding!
_________________________
"Death to Toasters"-John Connor

"All Hail the Power of Bauer"

"Only the Paranoid Survive" - Andy Grove

"Why is it called the American Dream? Because you have to be ASLEEP to believe it!" - George Carlin

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#98900 - 07/01/07 05:32 PM Re: Woman who gets lost in woods is found thanks to... [Re: hercdoc]
AROTC Offline
Addict

Registered: 05/06/04
Posts: 604
Loc: Manhattan
Save your life by making sure you have your cell phone with GPS on you at all times. Wowee, yet another way to bypass natural selection.

Death to Toaster's problem was solved by jerry rigging his Onstar antenna (congradulations on that by the way, its not everyone who'll rip the ceiling out of a $40,000 car to do what he needs too), but it was also created by reliance on another gadget namely the electronic navigation system on his car.
Quote:
...following the NAV system on our GMC Yukon Denali and forgot to shut off the service road options.


Map and compass wouldn't haven't gotten him out of the situation, but an up to date map and a few minutes of route planning could easily have prevented it.

I'd also like to know how search and rescue reacted when they arrived. Were you truely in a life threatening situation? Or just in risk of having to spend and uncomfortable night in your car? Did you need SAR or AAA?

I know I'm being rough (not specifically at Death to Toasters, he's just a ready example and I am impressed by his willingness to treat his truck as an object he can tear apart if he needs to), but seriously we've got to pay more then lip service to the idea that the mind is the most important survival tool. Its impressive to hear about someone who's will to live let them cut their own arm off to survive. What's more impressive is the people who's mind recognizes danger and gives them a chance to go around it.
_________________________
A gentleman should always be able to break his fast in the manner of a gentleman where so ever he may find himself.--Good Omens

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