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#94747 - 05/16/07 12:21 AM Razzle-Dazzle to the EXTREME
wildman800 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 2828
Loc: La-USA
This is an example when Razzle-Dazzle factors are pushed to the limit (aka: too cocky or over confident):

"When anyone asks how I can best describe my experence in nearly 40 years at sea, I merely say, uneventful. Of course there have been winter gales, and storms, and fog the like, but in all my experience, I have never been in any accident of any sort worth speaking about.
....I never saw a wreck and never have been wrecked, nor was I ever in any predicament that threatened to end in disaster of any sort. You see, I am not very good material for a story"
Captain Smith - Commanding Officer of the RMS TITANIC


1889 A captain runs his ship - REPUBLIC - aground in New York
1890 Same captain runs the - COPTIC - aground in Rio De Janeiro
1909 Same captain runs the - ADRIATIC - aground outside New York
1911 1st voyage of RMS OLYMPIC - same captain collides with and almost sinks - O.L. HALLENBECK - in Manhattan
Sep 1911 Same captain aboard - OLYMPIC - collides with HMS HAWKE sigificantly damaging both ships
Feb 1912 Same captain aboard - OLYMPIC - knocks off one of her propellers on a well known wreck in the Grand Banks

The captain is none other than Captain E. J. Smith, buried aboard his last command - RMS TITANIC

This is why Proper Planning Prevents [censored]-Poor Performance.
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QMC, USCG (Ret)
The best luck is what you make yourself!

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#94769 - 05/16/07 04:22 AM Re: Razzle-Dazzle to the EXTREME [Re: wildman800]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
I like it! Probably a prime example of a**-kissing and company politics at its best.

Sue

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#94771 - 05/16/07 04:28 AM Re: Razzle-Dazzle to the EXTREME [Re: Susan]
Themalemutekid Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/17/06
Posts: 351
Loc: New Jersey
We here in Jersey would call that guy a d****ebag..LOL
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....he felt the prompting of his heritage, the desire to possess, the wild danger-love, the thrill of battle, the power to conquer or to die. Jack London

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#94786 - 05/16/07 11:15 AM Re: Razzle-Dazzle to the EXTREME [Re: Susan]
wildman800 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 2828
Loc: La-USA
He apparently was prized and kept on by the company (The White Star Line) because of his ablity to entertain the 1st class passengers! There is nothing like keeping PRIORITIES straight!!!
_________________________
QMC, USCG (Ret)
The best luck is what you make yourself!

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#94791 - 05/16/07 12:25 PM Re: Razzle-Dazzle to the EXTREME [Re: wildman800]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
Just what they needed on the Titanic, another singing friggin' frog!!!
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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#94796 - 05/16/07 01:01 PM Re: Razzle-Dazzle to the EXTREME [Re: benjammin]
wildman800 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 2828
Loc: La-USA
Actually, he was an Englishman!!
_________________________
QMC, USCG (Ret)
The best luck is what you make yourself!

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#94799 - 05/16/07 01:38 PM Re: Razzle-Dazzle to the EXTREME [Re: wildman800]
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
It sounds as if the White Star Line had a "if you have a problem, promote it" policy back then...
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OBG

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#94805 - 05/16/07 02:58 PM Re: Razzle-Dazzle to the EXTREME [Re: OldBaldGuy]
Frank2135 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/26/07
Posts: 266
Loc: Ohio, USA
For what it's worth, in Captain Smith's time harbor channel markings were unlighted, non-standard, and frequently missing completely. There was no anti-collision radar, and few functional radios before 1910 or so. The Rules of the Road were subject to each captain's interpretation, losses of power were frequent, and the propulsion systems of the time couldn't always deal with the tide, wind and currents. I'm not trying to excuse the man's judgment aboard the Titanic or any other vessel - I just think his career needs to be judged in the context of his time rather than ours.
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All we can do is all we can do.

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#94825 - 05/16/07 05:19 PM Re: Razzle-Dazzle to the EXTREME [Re: Frank2135]
BrianTexas Offline
Ordinary Average Guy
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/26/06
Posts: 304
Loc: North Central Texas, USA
Don't forget the following when assigning blame to Captain Smith:

  • No GPS to precisely locate the ships in relation to shorelines
  • Latitude was still determined by sextant - was there an accurate means of establishing longtitude at that time?
  • The Titanic carried more lifeboats and safety equipment than was required by marine regulations at the time
  • Weather forecasts were imprecise at best - no satellite images of clouds, fog banks, storm fronts.
  • The Titanic had several flaws which may have contributed to sinking faster than what was expected (the bulkhead system of doors only went up about 2/3 of the ships height.)
  • Lookouts did not possess night vision goggles.
  • and finally...ETS did not exist to help with the disaster planning.


I'm not trying to absolve Smith of all responsibility, I'm just trying to put the situation in historical context. BTW - I'm still amazed that it took only 66 years from the first powered aircraft flight to landing on the moon.


Edited by BrianTexas (05/16/07 05:20 PM)
Edit Reason: corrected stupid typo
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Also known as BrianEagle. I just remembered my old password!

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#94827 - 05/16/07 05:46 PM Re: Razzle-Dazzle to the EXTREME [Re: BrianTexas]
Frank2135 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/26/07
Posts: 266
Loc: Ohio, USA
Longitude was then determined by a chronometer set to Greenwich Mean Time, compared to apparent noon at the ship's current location. The difference in time = the difference in longitude (basically).

While we're at it, I believe that neither the Olympic or Titanic had bow thrusters. Especially in a crowded harbor, if a stiff wind bore directly on the 2+ acres of area that the side of one of those ships presented, a collision was all too likely unless there were tugs standing by. It's easy to forget that a ship moves in a fluid, and does not track like a vehicle on dry land.
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