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#9060 - 10/01/02 01:09 PM Re: What are your 10 most important tools?
Anonymous
Unregistered


the main issue is properly cleaning a wound in the field. In most cases you will not be able to properly clean a deep wound in the field and closing that wound with anything from ductape to sutures to super-glue will result in a closed infection leading quickly to gangrene. Better to leave the wound open and allow it to drain and allow you to irrigate it to remove whatever necrotic tissue develops. The wound will clense itself eventually if you allow the dead stuff from that process to be washed out but if you prematurely bottle up that infection by closing the wound then it will rot under the skin and create an infection that can be fatal. <br><br>bottom line - unless you are about to bleed to death from the wound then leave it open and put a loose sterile dressing ( or as clean as you can get bandanna ) over it to keep out further contamination, irrigate it regularly and replace the dressing after each irrigation. Use only boiled sterile water for irragation unless you have some betadine solution or can create similar disinfectant. Avoid the harsh disinfectants since they can kill tissue as well as germs and the dead tissue merely feeds the infectious agents. <br><br>If you are in the field for a very long time with a wound that is becomming infected it is rumorred that maggots will only eat the dead tissue and keep the wound clean. IIRC this was standard war-time treatment during the US civil war. I personally wouldn't want to have to resort to that. The point is that back then they certainly knew of the risk of infection and had the skill to suture close a wound but couldn't create a clean enough envirionment in the field for that to be successfull, OTOH they did have some luck with maggots in an open wound preventing fatal infections.

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#9061 - 10/02/02 12:38 AM Re: What are your 10 most important tools?
Anonymous
Unregistered


I agree. That stuff is toxic. We used it a few times in the field to repair dentures. When we got back to civilization the poor dentist almost died because we had used it.

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#9062 - 10/12/02 02:57 AM Re: What are your 10 most important tools?
aardwolfe Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/22/01
Posts: 923
Loc: St. John's, Newfoundland
>> I agree. That stuff is toxic. We used it a few times in the field to repair dentures. When we got back to civilization the poor dentist almost died because we had used it.<br><br>In what way? Are you speaking metaphorically, or did you actually poison the dentist?
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#9063 - 10/12/02 03:13 AM Re: What are your 10 most important tools?
aardwolfe Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/22/01
Posts: 923
Loc: St. John's, Newfoundland
>>the main issue is properly cleaning a wound in the field. In most cases you will not be able to properly clean a deep wound in the field and closing that wound with anything from ductape to sutures to super-glue will result in a closed infection leading quickly to gangrene. <br><br>Yes, except that with duct tape, or better yet a proper sterile dressing and bandage, you can change the dressings on a regular basis, and it's important to cover the wound to prevent further infection. You can't change the dressing if the wound is crazy-glued shut. And there are a lot of things that can go wrong with crazy-glue - it's very easy to glue your fingers together; that's inconvenient enough in the field, but it's one of the least hazardous mishaps that can occur. If the tube bursts and it squirts in your eye, which I understand is a fairly common injury, you're going to need an emergency Medevac. I personally would never carry CG in the backcountry.<br><br>Besides, I can't conceive of a wound serious enough to be life-threatening that is small enough to be fixed with CG.
_________________________
"The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be kindled."
-Plutarch

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#9064 - 10/12/02 03:29 AM Re: Do we really carry this stuff?...yes.
aardwolfe Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/22/01
Posts: 923
Loc: St. John's, Newfoundland
How big is the tube tent, that you can carry it around with you all the time? I can see stuffing a space blanket in my inside suit pocket, I carry at least two of them in my car (I also have a number of plastic tarpaulins). Mountain Equipment Co-op sells an emergency bivy bag made of space blanket material that would probably stuff inside a wool tuque or watch cap; is your tube tent about that size? I personally couldn't see carrying anything larger than that.
_________________________
"The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be kindled."
-Plutarch

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#9065 - 10/12/02 01:27 PM Re: What are your 10 most important tools?
M_a_x Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/16/02
Posts: 1022
Loc: Germany
>>Yes, except that with duct tape<<<br>It doesnīt matter how you close the wound. Closing the wound can result in infections. Sometimes doctors put the steril dressing into the wound to prevent the skin from closing to early.<br>Duct tape for holding the dressing might be acceptable, if you donīt have anything better. But it shouldnīt have direct contact to the wound. The glue can contain some toxic substances, which might cause complications.<br><br>>>Besides, I can't conceive of a wound serious enough to be life-threatening that is small enough to be fixed with CG<<<br>Even if the wound is not life-threatening, itīs neccessary to treat it properly. Besides I think that CG isnīt good for treating wounds anyway.<br>
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#9066 - 10/12/02 08:50 PM Re: What are your 10 most important tools?
dBu24 Offline
new member

Registered: 09/26/02
Posts: 81
Loc: IL
I second that: <br>some years back I had an accident at work where molten brass flying at high speed hit me on the right side of my chest,leaving a nice hole where you could put a thumb inside,all covered/surrounded with necrotic tissue- not a nice view. <br><br>The good lads at the plastic surgery dept washed the place with a solution of plain tap water and some chloride tables dissolved in it.<br><br>The treatment was nothing more exotic than keeping the bandages wet, with some stuffed deep into the hole, to let the new tissue grow from inside out.<br><br>Took about one month to heal completely.<br><br>(the worst part was when I was just hit and the whole body gets into a "shock mode")<br><br>BRRRRRR... take care

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#9067 - 10/13/02 10:17 PM Maggots and wound care
Anonymous
Unregistered


If you want to find the latest info on the use of maggots in wound care then visit http://www.smtl.co.uk . These people are doing a lot of research, of course they're using specially bred sterile maggots, not the kind laid by some nasty germ ridden fly out in the wilderness.<br><br>Justin

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#9068 - 10/14/02 05:37 AM Re: What are your 10 most important tools?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Not sure. He called us all a bunch of ass--les and we left it at that. He fixxed it up and left it at that.

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#9069 - 10/14/02 04:53 PM Re: Do we really carry this stuff?...yes.
Schwert Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/13/02
Posts: 905
Loc: Seattle, Washington
aardwolfe,<br><br>My tube tent is the Tacoma Mountain Rescue Unit tent. It is 80 x 96 inches and weighs 5 oz. It is folded into 12 x 15 x 1 cm plastic pouch. <br><br>It is not particularily sturdy for long term use, but should suffice for a day or two while more substantial shelters can be improvised.<br><br>I carry it inside of a boiled wool, goofy-looking, Austrian ski hat, in the back pocket of my vest. I also have a hank of paracord (~5m) in the back pocket.<br><br>The tube shelter is available from REI for about $6. Here is the Tacoma Mountain Rescue Site


Edited by Schwert (10/14/02 06:03 PM)

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