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#88156 - 03/12/07 10:18 PM Re: How not to be seen - MARPAT or DPM [Re: ]
MrBadger Offline
journeyman

Registered: 11/22/04
Posts: 61
As Hazeywolf said, Multicam seems to be the top choice in cammo right now. It looks similar to the blotchy cammo both the SS and US Marines used in WW2.

IIRC it was beat out by the ACU/MARPAT patterns because it was too expensive to licence from Crye.

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#88159 - 03/12/07 10:41 PM Re: How not to be seen - MARPAT or DPM [Re: MrBadger]
MrBadger Offline
journeyman

Registered: 11/22/04
Posts: 61
Military Morons did a comparison with good photos.

Crye Multicam

and

Army ACU

The Support-a-sniper program, which collects items to be donated to snipers oversees, states "ALL GEAR PREFERABLY IN COYOTE TAN, TAN OR KHAKI - OD will suffice, Woodland LAST but okay."

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#88181 - 03/13/07 01:26 AM Re: How not to be seen - MARPAT or DPM [Re: ]
unimogbert Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 882
Loc: Colorado
Roadblocks in the US are not at all common but in a SHTF scenario, they happen. Look at the roadblocks around the New Orleans area for instance. And shelters for the displaced.
All had authority figures who believed their job was not to ensure just treatment but simply to ensure peace and quiet. To pass their inspection you have to present no threat nor give them any reason to think you are anything but another refugee.
Someone who looks paramilitary will get special attention.

But then again, a DPM kilt might get you a bye on the the search for weapons. Or it'll just go a lot faster :-)

unimogbert

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#88211 - 03/13/07 07:18 AM Re: How not to be seen - MARPAT or DPM [Re: unimogbert]
Chris Kavanaugh Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 3824
Being in Scotland how can you not have noticed two of the greatest cammie patterns around. Simple muted plaids and Harris tweeds are warmer and quieter than any dedicated cammie gear. I worked with an ethiopean refugee. Getachew was even taller than me and wore these grey/green workshirts and trousers. That guy could fade from view virtually in front of you. But then Getachew walked through minefields at night with his sister to freedom.


Edited by Chris Kavanaugh (03/13/07 07:19 AM)

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#88220 - 03/13/07 01:29 PM Re: How not to be seen - MARPAT or DPM [Re: ]
norad45 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/01/04
Posts: 1506
Roadblocks are not common in the USA except for the ones they occasionally set up to catch drunk drivers. And in 30+ years of driving I've only seen one of those. As far as wearing camo goes it probably depends on the location; around here camo is so common as to not even rate a second look, particularly from August though January.

Apologies for Bush messing up your golf game. I imagine they landed there for some specific reason--most likely security.

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#88224 - 03/13/07 02:08 PM Re: How not to be seen - MARPAT or DPM [Re: norad45]
Dragonscript Offline
Newbie

Registered: 12/19/06
Posts: 39
When you want to hide:

Dull colors
break up your outline
move slow
stay low to the ground
_________________________
Learn to swim.
-Tool

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#88225 - 03/13/07 02:20 PM Re: How not to be seen - MARPAT or DPM [Re: ]
stealthedc Offline


Registered: 02/11/07
Posts: 72
Loc: Durham NC
Where I live there is less and less natural areas and hunting grounds and more and more urbanization and sprawl. Camo during hunting season does not get a second look though, probably because we are a gun owning state and other parts of our state are very rural.

The one thing that gets me is that it is quite fashionable for youth to be in camo (just go to any mall and check out what the teenagers are wearing) and other urbanized military-style clothing, but it gets eyes and uneasy feelings from the public if you are an adult and wear this stuff.

Case in point:
I was leaving the hospital from a doctor appointment and I went to the wrong level looking for my truck (huger lot - that mistake won't happen again). I was walking around looking for my truck and there was this youger (read yuppie) attractive gal walking to her car and I saw great fear in her eyes and she froze up, apparently thinking I was going to do something bad to her. Made me frustrated because what I wear to work are simply green cargo pants and a khaki double pocketed shirt that apparently looks "paramilitary". Sacraficing utility in the name of fashion is something that Iimagine will be short lived. People in other countries keep things even if they get stained, faded, don't match, the like. We are so stuck up with clothes here that If you wear what yo like and works for you, you risk unwanted attention. When not at work I wear brown or kahki colored cargo pants and double pocketed shirts, and they don't draw as much attention as my work clothes, but I like to separate work from pleasure so I am willing to receive a few second glances here and there.

As for the roadblocks, they are mainly state troopers launching some shortlived program like seatbelt checks, drunk driving, etc. I did however live in a farily crappy neighborhood in Apex for some time and a few times a week the police set up roadblocks looking for guns and drugs. I guess it works but criminals can easily readjust their tactics (send one car through the area to make certain there are none, etc)

I guess the best recommendation overall is to blend in. That means more urban and less jungle for those of us who live in cities. However, if more people dressed in what they truly want and were a little bit individualistic in their decisions, we would have more creativity and thus less attention drawend and we would have a more diversly dressed society.

In the meantime your best bet might be a pair of ripped and paint stained $60 jeans from the Gap or Abercrombie. At least no one will look at you twice if you go for a nice hot meal at a soup kitchen...

_________________________
EDC, Mini PSK, PSK, Fishing PSK, Diaper Bag Kit, Portable Office, Vehicle Kit (X2), 72 Hour Kit, 7 Day Kit, SIP Kit and a Kit-Kat. Oh yeah, and a FAK (X10). Now where did I put the Tums?

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#88227 - 03/13/07 03:21 PM Re: How not to be seen - MARPAT or DPM [Re: stealthedc]
garrett Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/07/03
Posts: 249
Loc: North Carolina
Can I ask a chicken little question? Why would you not want to be seen? What scenario would you be in where you would not want to be seen by someone else, besides hunting?

This may not be the subject of this thread, but I wanted to add my two cents.

I am confused because, as a Marine who could be part of a quick reaction force for domestic disaster/disturbance (read terrorist attack, homegrown insurgancy, etc) paramilitary type behavior (i.e. guys running around in cammies with guns) is an issue.

The military will be called in during a terrorist attack/natural disaster and if they see someone or a group of people running around a checkpoint/observation post in camo (military or not), carrying packs and weapons, then they could be considered hostiles. I hope you can see where I am going with this.

I would like to echo what has already been said, camo may not be your best bet in a bad situation, plain old, dull, civilian clothes would be a much better choice.

Also, most civilian clothes will actually stand up to more abuse than utility uniforms, just FYI.

I may be off the mark, but I get antsy about this subject, since I could be the one manning that checkpoint, having to make the decision on the spot.

Garrett

_________________________
On occasion of every accident that befalls you, remember to turn to yourself and inquire what power you have for turning it to use. - Epictetus

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#88233 - 03/13/07 04:02 PM Re: How not to be seen - MARPAT or DPM [Re: garrett]
norad45 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/01/04
Posts: 1506
I have always shared your skepticism about the need to hide, particularly from the government. I always thought such a scenario was unlikely in the extreme. But:

Quote:
...as a Marine who could be part of a quick reaction force for domestic disaster/disturbance (read terrorist attack, homegrown insurgancy, etc) paramilitary type behavior (i.e. guys running around in cammies with guns) is an issue.

The military will be called in during a terrorist attack/natural disaster and if they see someone or a group of people running around a checkpoint/observation post in camo (military or not), carrying packs and weapons, then they could be considered hostiles.

I may be off the mark, but I get antsy about this subject, since I could be the one manning that checkpoint, having to make the decision on the spot.


I must confess these statements of yours concern me a little. I can absolutely guarantee you that, in a case of large scale natural disaster, a sizable chunk of the population in certain areas of the country are going to be carrying weapons. I can further guarantee you that a goodly percentage of them may be wearing camo. Surely you have had sufficient training and/or experience to help you to differentiate between lawfully armed citizens and a genuine threat?

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#88235 - 03/13/07 04:02 PM Re: How not to be seen - MARPAT or DPM [Re: garrett]
wildman800 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 2846
Loc: La-USA
IRT your question, local roadblocks/check points on the perimeters of towns is what I would be expecting. No, I don't wish to interact or be questioned by local folk that I don't know. I feel it is best to just go around guarded areas versus trying to take a shortcut and perhaps getting my equipment confiscated and myself injured or killed.
IRT the military, avoidance is still my preferred tactic, if possible. Otherwise, I'll sit out in the open in front of a patrol and wait for them to reach me and then we can palaver over who I am and what I am trying to do, and hopefully they will be satisfied with my answers (and documentation, including Military ID).
The main idea is to move safely from point A (work) to point B (home) while minimizing the number of people who see, hear, or smell me. This also minimizes possible bad outcomes from such meetings. I primarily plan on moving along east-west RR tracks but not necessarily marching down the tracks as much as paralleling their right-of-way. This keeps me in the brush (slower movement) and better able to see others before they see me. It maximizes options for safe transit, resupply along the route, and possibly being able to pick up some weapons along the way. If things appear to be cool, then I can jump onto the tracks and make better time, at least until I come up to a town, then I'll probably break away from the tracks and skirt around the town to come back onto the tracks.
That's my plan and my reasoning.
_________________________
QMC, USCG (Ret)
The best luck is what you make yourself!

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