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#87440 - 03/05/07 09:42 PM Re: Survival Myths [Re: NightHiker]
Lasd02 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/14/05
Posts: 130
Loc: Pasadena, Calif.

NightHiker,
The funny thing is, if someone else had posted this info not too long ago, I too would have disagreed. This information comes from a credible source (Wilderness Medicine Newsletter), and seems to be up to date (2/14/07).


"... The idea that we lose heat faster through our scalp, because of the constant blood supply to the brain, is simply a myth. (One that I personally have believed for many years.)"

Dr. Gordon Giesbrecht, PHD



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#87442 - 03/05/07 10:06 PM Re: Survival Myths [Re: Lasd02]
ponder Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/18/06
Posts: 367
Loc: American Redoubt
"On a recent post the practice of using Povidone iodine and/or Betadine on an open wound was discussed and eventually debunked by several knowledgable board members."

At the risk of being somewhat blunt - BS!

Povidone Iodine is one of the most widely used antiseptics in the world. "IF" it slowed cell growth x% so what! It kills ring worm, fungus, sprep and every other commonly known topical organism that causes infection.
_________________________
Cliff Harrison
PonderosaSports.com
Horseshoe Bend, ID
American Redoubt
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#87447 - 03/05/07 10:33 PM Re: Survival Myths [Re: Lasd02]
ironraven Offline
Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
I read that article you linked to. And I'm pretty sure that their claims about ingesting cold vs hot fluid to combat hypothermia are going to be debate for a VERY long time, by the majority of people who live were there IS snow. I'm in the same area as the conference they referenced and having lived here most of my life and liking winter, I think they are lacking on that count.

Hot fluids are passive calories. If you doubt that, here is a simple experiment. Take a cold shower. Take your oral temperature. Quickly drink a liter of hot water(chug it if you can). Take your temperature, and again in ten minutes. If taken orally, you'll get a spike for obvious reasons immediately afterwards, but your temperature will climb a few degrees.

It isn't long term, it's a short term effect. And it's probably mostly morale, aka mindset, that is effected. You FEEL warmer, and unlike alcohol, it isn't a trick. I'll stick with warm fluids in winter and cool in summer, thank you.
_________________________
-IronRaven

When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

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#87455 - 03/05/07 11:06 PM Re: Survival Myths [Re: ironraven]
oldsoldier Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/25/06
Posts: 742
Loc: MA
the hot water thing I"m calling shenanigans on. Your body, from what I remember, needs to heat anything it digests to an accepateble temperature. To do so requires calories. Calories are fuel. Fuel keeps you warm. you"d burn more calories heating something in your stomach, than you would if the temp needs to drop.
Now, I"m not saying I"m right, merely passing on what I"ve learned.
_________________________
my adventures

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#87456 - 03/05/07 11:16 PM Re: Survival Myths [Re: NightHiker]
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
From a fast skimming of this article, it seems that if you are shivering (pretty common in really cold weather if not properly clothed), you can lose over 55% of your body heat from the head. And if not exercising, but have an elevated heart rate due to something like impending panic ("Oh my God, I'm lost in the woods!"), you can lose about 50% of your body heat, again through the noggin. Makes a hat sound good to me...
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OBG

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#87457 - 03/05/07 11:19 PM Re: Survival Myths [Re: ponder]
billym Offline
Addict

Registered: 12/01/05
Posts: 616
Loc: Oakland, California
Originally Posted By: ponder
"On a recent post the practice of using Povidone iodine and/or Betadine on an open wound was discussed and eventually debunked by several knowledgable board members."

At the risk of being somewhat blunt - BS!

Povidone Iodine is one of the most widely used antiseptics in the world. "IF" it slowed cell growth x% so what! It kills ring worm, fungus, sprep and every other commonly known topical organism that causes infection.


Alcohol will kill all those things as well but that doesn't make it appropriate to put in a wound.
PI is mostly used to disinfect skin BEFORE surgery not in wounds.
Using diluted PI to irrigate a wound is mainly to sterilize the water not your wound.

Medicine is not static it evolves as the knowledge expands; many former practices are no longer considered appropriate.

The medical "practice" for cleaning and disinfecting wounds has evolved over the years while apparently your medical training has not.


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#87460 - 03/05/07 11:54 PM Re: Survival Myths [Re: OldBaldGuy]
wildman800 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 2846
Loc: La-USA
The USCG teaches that one can lose up to 40% of your body heat through your exposed head. This does not mean that you can only lose 10% here and 25% there. It means that if the rest of you are properly clothed except for your head, you can still lose that 40% via your head.
_________________________
QMC, USCG (Ret)
The best luck is what you make yourself!

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#87464 - 03/06/07 12:14 AM Re: Survival Myths [Re: oldsoldier]
ironraven Offline
Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
That's why I said hot water. It's already at or above body temperature. I call it "free calories" because you don't need to use calories to heat the fluid.

Then again, I also call my black winter jacket "free calories" because if I go out in the sun it absorbs heat that way rather than having to only rely on body heat to warm the air spaces.

Or are you backing me and I'm just too groggy on cold meds to realise it? :P
_________________________
-IronRaven

When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

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#87465 - 03/06/07 12:31 AM Re: Survival Myths [Re: ironraven]
MrBadger Offline
journeyman

Registered: 11/22/04
Posts: 61
Originally Posted By: ironraven
...hot water...I call it "free calories" because you don't need to use calories to heat the fluid.


Yep. You are transfering the calorie content of the fuel into your body in the form of heat. All other things being equal, a hot cup of cocoa is going to give you more energy than the same cup after it has cooled.

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#87466 - 03/06/07 12:35 AM Re: Survival Myths [Re: OldBaldGuy]
Lasd02 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/14/05
Posts: 130
Loc: Pasadena, Calif.

OBG,
Just to clarify, I believe the article says that your head and neck amount to 7% of your bodies surface area, if you are shivering, that 7% sheds 55% more heat raising the actual heat loss from the scalp to about 10% of total body surface area which is the figure the article cites. Then to really confuse the issue, if you start sweating from the shivering, it drops back down to 7%. And yes, a hat still sounds good to me also...


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