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#7959 - 08/07/02 08:02 PM New at this, dumb questions I am sure!
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi, guys! My husband and I are fairly new to the survival prep, and have been working on lighting, first aid, communication, safety, water purification, long term food storage, etc. I have a few questions that I can't seem to find the answers to:<br><br>1. What is the "shelf-life" of lamp oil and kerosene, unopened, and in climate control?<br>2. Where on earth do I buy kerosene in 5 gallon quantities? Tried our Super Walmart and the local camping supply stores, but no luck.<br>3. Your recommendations for semi-automatic rifle for people who are new to guns. Something I can use as well as my husband (for protection).<br>4. Does kerosene need special storage conditions?<br><br>Thanks so much for your input! I have learned quite a bit here already, but I am sure that I will have more questions later!<br><br>Barb G

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#7960 - 08/07/02 09:29 PM Re: New at this, dumb questions I am sure!
Chris Kavanaugh Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 3824
Barb, Stricter shipping regulations extincted 5 gallon kerosene units @ 5 years ago. Unless you can arrange a bulk purchase with a supplier it's the one gallon units or nothing. All fuels will degrade over time with varnish and carbon buildup. There are fuel stabiliser products on the market that can be added. www.majorsurplusnsurvival.com and www.priproducts.com can provide more information. I've kept Dietz railroad lanterns full with positive burning up to 2 years max. Kerosene has potential health risks; both in storage and use. Firearm use is a very emotionally and politically charged discusion. You should ask yourself what exactly it is you intend to shoot and why. Instruction is vital. I certainly wouldn't use a semi auto to start with. The NRA certifies instructors and is a good base of information. Emergency preparation ( "survival" has some negative social connotations) is a popular activity as a quick websearch will show. Avoid the political and philosphical baggage and the information is available.

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#7961 - 08/07/02 10:33 PM Re: New at this, dumb questions I am sure!
lcs37 Offline
new member

Registered: 08/07/02
Posts: 12
Loc: NM
Barb - Welcome to Preparedness Awareness!<br>Two excellent references for broadening your knowledge are:<br>http://www.beprepared.com/Insight/insight.html <br> AND<br>http://millennium-ark.net/News_Files/Hollys.html<br><br>Sorry about the long url's but couldn't figure out how to insert the hyperlink. My normal procedure didn't work. <br>Happy preparation and hunting.<br> <br>

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#7962 - 08/07/02 11:36 PM Re: New at this, dumb questions I am sure!
AyersTG Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/10/01
Posts: 1272
Loc: Upper Mississippi River Valley...
<< Stricter shipping regulations... >> Grrrr! I've run into that with a NUMBER of ridiculous innocous items lately - I have some very choice comments to make, but they are political, so I'll refrain...<br><br>However - I am just about certain that we can get kerosene in 5 gallon containers at a number of local retailers. And I AM certain that I can get it bulk (my container or theirs) from a local "Oil Company" by walking in and asking for it. I'm sure you're right, Chris, about having it trucked to you - hazardous cargo shipping charges would be outrageous. But I think it's readily available at retailers who stock it.<br><br>Regards,<br><br>Tom

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#7963 - 08/08/02 12:09 AM Re: New at this, dumb questions I am sure!
AyersTG Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/10/01
Posts: 1272
Loc: Upper Mississippi River Valley...
Welcome, Barb<br><br><< What is the "shelf-life" of lamp oil and kerosene, unopened, and in climate control? >><br><br>To the best of my knowledge, kereosene is very stable in long term storage. Diesel and gasoline is NOT. I don't believe that any special precautions need to be taken for long-term storage of kerosene. Diesel has special problems in long term storage and gasoline has others. Both need stabilizers and both need to have minimumal (ideally none) contact with the atmosphere (O2 and H2O cause various degradations to those fuels). Keep your kerosene safe from accidental ignition and it probably will be fine longer than you care. Anyone know for certain otherwise?<br><br>I'd guess that "lamp oil" is too broad a category of possible fuels to answer your question, so I''m not going to venture a guess on that.<br><br><< Where on earth do I buy kerosene in 5 gallon quantities? >><br><br>Not to be trite, but... wherever they sell it in 5 gallon containers - see my previous reply to Chris. Perhaps you live in an area where not many folks regularly use kerosene space heaters...? In any event, if you cannot find it locally, try your local oil products distributors. If there is a local demand, they buy tanker-car loads / barge loads of various fuels, solvents, etc. and often (usually) will package for you in 55 gallon containers, for example. With appropriate commercial containers you could then re-package OR leave it sealed in the drum(s) until needed. 55 gallon drums are not too hard to maneuver around (YMMMV) or get in and out of pick ups, hand-cranked pumps are reasonably priced, and there's probably little or no temptation to store a DRUM of fuel in the house... smaller containers have a higher "temptation" value towards inappropriate storage IMHO.<br><br>Actually, I can get kerosene "from the pump" locally at at least one local distributor, now that I think about it - that's how my buddy keeps his salamander fueled for his garage. Two 5 gallon blue jugs labeled kerosene and it's like getting lawnmower gas at the filling station. But there has to be a local demand or (of course) they won't stock it.<br><br><< Your recommendations for semi-automatic rifle for people who are new to guns. Something I can use as well as my husband (for protection). >><br><br>I don't believe there is an intelligent answer I can give to that question and if there is, maybe Chris should move that part of the discussion to the Campfire Forum? (Just a thought...). BTW, my petite wife can and and does shoot any and all firearms found in our house, so aside from being able to reach the controls safely, I don't ascribe to anything other than good sense with regard to a weapon that either husband or wife could use - it suits the purpose or not, that's all. <br><br>So... what are you considering being prepared for protection from? How much time are you willing to commit to 1) formal training and 2) regular practice? What is your environment - urban, rural, housing density, type of construction, etc - lots of questions. Maybe some answers - no, suggestions - from me and others later <grin>. Sorta like asking what kind of sports car you should buy to go to the grocery store before you've taken driver's education... well, sorta like that.<br><br>HTH. Again, welcome.<br><br>Tom

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#7964 - 08/08/02 12:35 AM Re: New at this, dumb questions I am sure!
Ade Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/03/02
Posts: 280
Barb,<br><br>Welcome aboard!<br><br>Regarding your questions:<br><br>1. I don't know, but it's a long, long, time. I found an unopened one gallon can of kerosene some time ago that dated back at LEAST 20 years. It worked fine.<br><br>2. Some (most around here) service stations have large above ground kerosene tanks. Let your fingers do the walking, and then get as much as you want. <br><br>3. Ruger Mini-14. Assuming you mean protection from people, rather than LARGE animals. They're light-weight, somewhat ergonomic, very durable, very reliable, reasonably accurate, use cheap (comparatively) ammo, and are cheaper than the AR-15 clones that abound nowadays. If you had posted 3 weeks ago, I could have let you have a used one cheap. Why the insistence on an auto? Please also think hard about Chris and Tom's comments concerning training, SAFETY, philosophical issues, etc... I tend to gloss over those, having long ago settled such concerns for myself, but they are IMPORTANT considerations.<br><br>4. Nope, just use common sense. Sealed, durable containers stored away from flame sources, temperature extremes and children.<br><br>Take care,<br><br>Andy<br><br>


Edited by Ade (08/08/02 12:43 AM)

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#7965 - 08/08/02 12:55 AM Re: New at this, dumb questions I am sure!
AyersTG Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/10/01
Posts: 1272
Loc: Upper Mississippi River Valley...
A few kerosine links to click:<br><br>Clear-Lite<br><br>Safety Central<br><br>Oil Distributor Example<br><br>

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#7966 - 08/08/02 02:32 AM Re: New at this, dumb questions I am sure!
AyersTG Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/10/01
Posts: 1272
Loc: Upper Mississippi River Valley...
<< ... I tend to gloss over those, having long ago settled such concerns for myself >><br><br>Andy,<br><br>I'd call you an old reprobate, but then, you're not old... yet <grin>.<br><br>Tom

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#7967 - 08/08/02 02:49 AM Re: New at this, dumb questions I am sure!
Ade Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/03/02
Posts: 280
Tom,<br><br>Reprobate!?...... I like that. That's what my wife, and some very good (and very Christian) friends jokingly (most of the time) call me.<br><br>Not old yet, huh? I hit thirty this year graybearded one, and anyway, it's not the years, it's the mileage.....not that you don't have me beat there also :)<br><br>Take care,<br><br>Andy

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#7968 - 08/08/02 03:28 AM Re: New at this, dumb questions I am sure!
Anonymous
Unregistered


I will touch on the guns since I live in a part of the world where you are considered "strange" if you dont carry one. :)<br>You specified a semi-auto rifle. Someone mentioned a mini-14. Its a fantastic gun although it wouldnt make my personal list of survival arms. I would like you to give thought to two particular weapons before you cash out a few hundred dollars. Consider the Remington 870 pump shotgun in 12 guage and a Marlin lever action carbine in 357 Magnum. Ive got some reasons behind these choices. Both of these are close to medium range weapons.<br> A 12 guage pump is about the most versatile (and deadly) close range ( to 40 or so yards) weapon you could buy. With the proper load, this gun will take anything on the North American continent. Ammo can be bought to do nearly anything you can imagine. (Flares, bean bags, bird loads, rubber balls, lead slugs, low recoil, you name it) My wife weighs 120 lbs and handles standard 2-3/4" 00 buckshot from this gun without flinching. Anything larger than that is too much for self defense anyway. This is my first choice if I only had one long gun. <br> My second choice would be a Marlin lever action .357 magnum carbine. This choice stems from the advice I give people on handguns which goes: "If you are only going to own one handgun, then get a 4" barrel .357 magnum revolver. Its the most versatile handgun around, its nearly idiot proof, and you can afford to practice with it." Stands to reason that I would suggest a rifle that shoots the same bullets. This gun WILL kill a deer at ranges you are likely to see in a forest. This gun is a pussycat to shoot nomatter what load you put in it. I've let many "non gun types" shoot this gun and they have all walked away with a smile on their face. <br> OK, I want to talk about high capacity semi-auto weapons in general. Im not against them. My wife carries a .45 auto for Petes sake. Its just that hollywood and some very stupid people in politics have painted them as being some sort of ultra-destructive super-weapon. They are far from it. Most of them are a compromise between controlability, weight, price, etc. The truth is that animals dont shoot back and if you cannot resolve a self-defense issue in less than six rounds you are in deep trouble anyway. Semi-auto's require much more maintenence to function properly and are usually intolerant of not being clean. Both guns that I am suggesting are insensitive to all but the dirtiest of conditions. There are no O-rings or plungers or gas ports or anything like that to screw up. Both guns have been proven for many decades and the Marlin has been in production since the 1890's. The design is that good. <br> Both of these guns are expensive compared to the competition. This is an area, though, where you get what you pay for. You would be able to give these guns to your grandchildren and they will still work. How much money is your life worth?<br> Have I muddled up the issue enough? smile

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