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#79105 - 12/20/06 12:20 AM Re: James Kim: Snowbound Vehicle Info and Analysis
RobertRogers Offline
Survivor
Member

Registered: 12/12/06
Posts: 198
I agree. The Forest Service cannot gate and lock every road and every trail in all the National Forests to keep people from making mistakes. You have to take care of yourself.
_________________________
FireSteel.com

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#79106 - 12/20/06 05:47 AM Re: James Kim: Snowbound Vehicle Info and Analysis
cedfire Offline
Addict

Registered: 07/10/03
Posts: 659
Loc: Orygun
There are numerous warning signs on the road, long before you even get to the road (Bear Camp Rd) that they were going to take to the coast.

We're talking BIG bright yellow signs. You would have to be blind to miss them, even at night.

Granted, we all make bad decisions at times. But I still can't wrap my mind around why someone would, at night in a blinding snowstorm, take their family consisting of a wife and two small children on such a drive along a one-lane backcountry USFS road.

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#79107 - 12/20/06 05:53 AM Re: James Kim: Snowbound Vehicle Info and Analysis
SARbound Offline
Addict

Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 503
Loc: Quebec City, Canada
Especially if the road is unplowed... <img src="/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

I live in eastern Canada and we have a lot of snow during the winter. If a road is unplowed, I would be hesitant to engage myself onto it. I would ask myself "hey, this is a secondary road, this should be plowed under normal circumstances"... I would constantly be reassessing the situation, up to the point where I know darn well that my front-wheel drive car would have problems : time to turn around.

James Kim should've stopped driving and turned around when he saw that the amount of snow on the road could keep the car from getting unstucked in case of problems.
_________________________
-----
"The only easy day was yesterday."

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#79108 - 12/20/06 12:06 PM Re: James Kim: Snowbound Vehicle Info and Analysis
Old_Scout Offline
journeyman

Registered: 11/03/06
Posts: 95
Loc: Delaware
Quote:
When they make it we hail them as heros & they get their names put in our history books. When they fail we point out their mistakes & sweep them from our memories.
Not always so! I urge everyone on this forum to read a book, "The Last Place on Earth" (Roland Huntford), the story of Raol Amundsen's race to the South Pole. Amundsen was the first to the Pole, but Robert Scott, who arrived a month later and died returning, was the man who went down in mythical proportions in British history. Amundsen was promptly forgotten! Why? There was certainly nationalistic pride involved and the British fascination with stubborn failures. But beyond that they hated Amundsen because he made it seem simple! Amundsen learned from the native peoples of the north and was committed to a light, fast expedition with dogs as a result. Scott on the other hand struggled south with a huge party and horses! The real message of the book (IMHO): with good advance planning and willingness to learn even the formidable becomes easy. I urge everyone interested in the rigors of outdoor living to read this book.
_________________________
See 'Ya Down the Trail,
Mike McGrath

"Be Prepared" "For what?" "Why, any old thing!" B-P

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#79109 - 01/02/07 11:46 PM Re: James Kim: Snowbound Vehicle Info and Analysis
Be_Prepared Offline
Addict

Registered: 12/07/04
Posts: 530
Loc: Massachusetts
There are numerous warning signs on the road, long before you even get to the road (Bear Camp Rd) that they were going to take to the coast. We're talking BIG bright yellow signs. You would have to be blind to miss them, even at night ]

Reminds me of a sign that I see every year or two when we do the hike along the Presidential Range in New Hampshire's White Mountains. As you are hiking towards the Madison Spring Hut, right around where you are reaching the treeline, there is a large bright yellow sign from the forest service that says:
STOP
The area ahead has the worst weather in America. Many have died there from exposure even in the summer. Turn back NOW if the weather is bad.

The Presidential Range is the home of Mt Washington, which has quite a reputation from a weather perspective... Just how many people, at that point, actually turn around because of poor preparation or declining weather I wonder?
In fact, I wonder if those who are most prepared, and understand the potential issues ahead of them are more likely to turn around than those who are less "aware" of the reality they face?
_________________________

- Ron

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#79110 - 01/03/07 05:44 AM Re: James Kim: Snowbound Vehicle Info and Analysis
cedfire Offline
Addict

Registered: 07/10/03
Posts: 659
Loc: Orygun
Hmm... that's a good sign. I wonder if the USFS / BLM should put up a few like that.

For those interested, the OR State Sheriff's Association has been asked to review the SAR case and the Governor is expecting a full report on his desk by the end of the week. Reason: To identify any areas that might need to be improved or changed in the future.

Also, some of those involved have mentioned that the scathing "Oregonian" newspaper article contained false statements and quotes.

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#79111 - 01/03/07 04:24 PM Re: James Kim: Snowbound Vehicle Info and Analysis
Eugene Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 2995
That still assumes people would pay attention to the sign.

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#79112 - 01/04/07 02:09 AM Re: James Kim: Snowbound Vehicle Info and Analysis
Be_Prepared Offline
Addict

Registered: 12/07/04
Posts: 530
Loc: Massachusetts
I wish I could remember the way they worded another trail warning around the Crawford Path. It says something crazy like "if you're not an amazing physical specimen, you are likely to go into cardiac arrest before the summit". That's not exactly how they word it, I should take more pictures of this stuff when we're up there! The signs certainly catch your attention more than the typical "hiking can be dangerous, be careful" signs.
_________________________

- Ron

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#79113 - 01/04/07 02:17 AM Re: James Kim: Snowbound Vehicle Info and Analysis
Eugene Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 2995
I've seen the same amount of creative signs blocking country roads. Such signs like "protected by Smith and Wesson", "Violators will be shot", "dead end road", etc and people will still open the gates and drive on through. When I was young I always wondered my my father would get so upset when people would open the gate and drive up our own farm road, but as I get older and see some of the stupid things people so I think I would do the same now. I'd probably lock them in and call the local police and press charges without asking anymore and not even confront them, no matter how innocent they claim to be when they opened the closed gate that had to trespassing signs all over it.

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#79114 - 01/09/07 11:07 PM Re: James Kim: Snowbound Vehicle Info and Analysis
clearwater Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/19/05
Posts: 1177
Loc: Channeled Scablands
To emphasize what some others have said, a $40 pair of heavy tire chains
and a sturdy shovel can get you back out of situations like this.

In California you are required to carry tire chains when the chain controls are on (on the interstates most every time it snows)
If you have a 4 or
all wheel drive and good snow tires, you usually are not required to put them on,
but you will still get a ticket if stopped and you are not carrying some.

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