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#79043 - 12/10/06 02:09 PM Re: Additional Details on Kim SAR Efforts
Doug_Ritter Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/28/01
Posts: 2198
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#79044 - 12/10/06 02:24 PM James Kim - Last night on the evening News
Micah513 Offline
Member

Registered: 07/18/06
Posts: 178
Loc: Springfield, MO
What are the odds?

On the evening news (NBC?) last night they said the Kim's car was stranded on the same logging road that the salesman that died 11 years ago was on. I like many American's saw that (Primetime or Dateline) story 5 or 6 years ago that detailed that guys story about how he sat there for 40+ days waiting for help & starved to death. I like many after watching it said I'm going to walk out if ever caught it that situation. I have since reconsidered & realize my odds are so much better to stay put. My memory is fuzzy on his story, but if I remember right one thing that is overlooked is that guy didn't have anyone that was expecting him back anytime soon. Even if you have altered your travel route without letting anyone know (big mistake) then most people have coworkers & family that would alert the authorities to start searching.


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#79045 - 12/10/06 03:24 PM Re: Doug's Blog Post
KenK Offline
"Be Prepared"
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 06/26/04
Posts: 2208
Loc: NE Wisconsin
What is the white rope in the center of the photo just under the medical kit? Is that a pulley system?

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#79046 - 12/10/06 04:26 PM Re: Additional Details on Kim SAR Efforts
widget Offline
Addict

Registered: 07/06/03
Posts: 550
Having been a SAR person for some years, I can clearly see that today is no dfferent than 20 years ago. Searchers all mean well and try their best, there is always confusion, sketchy information and misinterpretations. That is why it is so important to leave clear trip plans with someone that can initiate a search. There will still be confusion and misguided efforts due to poor translation but that will be minimized by planning times, dates and road information. If you leave your planned route for any reason, call someone and tell them the change. The Kims probably only saw the deviation of their route as a minor inconvenience. They clearly did not understand the difference in that road over the planned road. Easy mistake to make, the consequenses speak for themselves.
Reading the link Doug provided, we can all clearly see the variations in reality and what was being reported earlier. Just as searchers are hindered by misinformation, the media seldom has correct information either. I can tell you that rescue efforts that I participated in, were not once reported correctly even if there was a helicopter newsman along. Not once did we recieve all the facts from service coordinators, they simply never have all the information or never disseminate it correctly.
We all need to keep these things in mind when we head out on a journey, there is seldom a quick rescue coming along unless you in clear site of a major road or residence. Keep yourself out of trouble but plan for the possibilities!
I can clearly rethink my attitude about a PLB now. Like Martin, I always saw them as a aviator or mariner "must have". Now I can see the value in an everyday road traveller owning such a device. An amatuer radio is also a great investment in personal safety, a HAM license is much easier to obtain now, and the radios are reasonably priced. You do need to know how to use one, knowledge of where reapeaters are located and the frequencies. I keep mine handy on the road.
Bottom line, preventable tragedy very sad outcome. Let's learn from this and get better at preparation and response.
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#79047 - 12/10/06 05:01 PM Re: Additional Details on Kim SAR Efforts
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
"...in Portland. The plan the next day was to go to Gold Beach..."

Given that information, and assuming that their plan was to continue south on I-5 from Portland, I feel that once they passed State Hwy 42 to the west at Green, Oregon, and then failed to take State Hwy 199 SW from Grants Pass, they were pretty much doomed. From Microsoft Streets and Trips, and my admittedly limited knowledge of that area (I have been from Grants Pass to Gold Beach, via Agness, once), there is nothing but USFS and BML roads between I-5 and Hwy 101 in that area, and those type roads are rarely, if ever, paved or kept open in the winter. Add to that the fact that they had called the motel that was their intended destination at 5:45 p.m. from Salem, "more than 200 miles to the north," means that they started out on those snowcovered dirt roads in the dark. Not good.

I find it interesting that while Streets and Trips shows all of the roads between I-5 and 101 in that area as USFS and BLM roads, my Rand McNally '07 Travel Guide shows several of those east-west roads, including what looks to be Bear Camp Road, as being an "other road," as opposed to their lowest category, "unpaved road." I do not know how they classify roads, and what an "other" road would be, but the implication is that it would be something better than an "unpaved" road. Even if you have a map and use it, you can receive bumb info.

I also find it intersting, and disturbing, that the USFS states that the lock had been cut off by vandals in Nov. If they knew that, why did they not replace the lock? A $10 lock (or probably a little more for a high quality, keyed alike, lock) could have prevented this entire incident, and saved a life...
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#79048 - 12/10/06 05:07 PM Re: Doug's Blog Post
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
It looks to me like a rolled tow strap, with the metal hook ends in the middle of the roll. A tow strap alone will not help you, but if another vehicle comes along, or you happen upon a stuck vehicle, one makes it much easier to pull a vehicle out...
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#79049 - 12/10/06 05:33 PM Re: Doug's Blog Post
KenK Offline
"Be Prepared"
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 06/26/04
Posts: 2208
Loc: NE Wisconsin
I suppose you're right. At first it looked like a coil of white nylon rope with a hook or clasp of some kind in the middle.

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#79050 - 12/10/06 07:40 PM Re: James Kim - Last night on the evening News
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
FUBAR!!!

And THAT'S what you have to plan for.

BTW, the salesman's rig had slid off the road in the deepest patch of snow around, in the trees. He was mobile, he was in good shape, he had equipment and supplies. It was said (in hindsight, of course) that had he attempted to walk the half-mile back down the road after the first week or so, the snow had probably been melted enough for him to walk out. He apparently had thought that the whole area was as bad as the particular place where he was.

If you've changed your direction, haven't notified anyone, and no one knows you're lost, it seems to me that you should check out the area, esp the road. A half-hour walk (car door to car door) isn't going to put you in hypothermia if you stick to the road. Go out, check out the road/terrain, go back to the car and warm up. Check out the other direction, then warm up. Make a decision. Of course, I'm not talking about doing it during a snowstorm, or after dark.

But the Kim case (and the salesman's case) show that waiting around until you starve to death may not be the best way to handle the situation.

Depending on people who won't accept information, people who assume something has been done, people working on erronous information.... why leave these people in charge of your life?

Sue

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#79051 - 12/10/06 09:04 PM Re: James Kim: Snowbound Vehicle Info and Analysis
frediver Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 215
Loc: N.Cal.
I;ve sat on this comment for a couple of days.

I really do feel for the family.
Now I would like to ask a question.
If he had a cell phone and it was turned on it was transmitting.
Could the signal have been received by a govt approved portable scanner?
If the signal could be received by a scanner could the scanner be installed in a helicopter searching the area? As I asked above, if a unaccounted for signal was received would that have been enough information to allow searchers to home in?
At one time civilian scanners had the ability to scan cell freq's but that feature is now banned. I expect these scanners are still available to L.E. agency's.
And what wrong with the idea of flying with a portable cell system (if one exists) something that CAN originate and receive a cell call? In that type of terrain a signal will only reach a couple miles. Find the target signal, phone and then let them direct the search.
All that can be done now is send condolences to the family and hopefully learn from this mistake.



Edited by frediver (12/10/06 09:06 PM)

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#79052 - 12/10/06 09:22 PM Re: Additional Details on Kim SAR Efforts
frediver Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 215
Loc: N.Cal.
On PLB's
I just don't see everyone running out to buy them no matter how effective they may be. IMO the key is using some that likely 75% of the population already has, a cell phone.
The only obstacle would be that someone must have some idea of your travel plans.
Now if I am planning to be in a remote area out of regular contact for more than a week using a PLB is a different story.

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