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#79008 - 12/08/06 06:26 PM Re: James Kim: Snowbound Vehicle Info and Analysis
Eugene Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 2852
If someone with an FRS radio was close enough to hear them then they could have just picked them up. One of my counsins bough a pack of them one year for deer season and you could have written you message on the radio and tossed it at the other person sometimes when they wouldn't pick up each others signals.
GMRS is a little too application specific so people are not just driving down the road listening for them.
Your much better off broadcasting a signal so HAM or even CB since there will be more chance of someone hearing it

#79009 - 12/08/06 06:42 PM Re: James Kim: Snowbound Vehicle Info and Analysis
norad45 Offline

Registered: 07/01/04
Posts: 1506
But here we have a guy who tried and failed, and a family who needs to find some peace in loss, which is darned hard to do

This appears to be attributed to me but is not my quote. No big deal, just wanted to clarify that.

#79010 - 12/08/06 06:50 PM Re: James Kim: Snowbound Vehicle Info and Analysis
norad45 Offline

Registered: 07/01/04
Posts: 1506
I have a Garmin Rino 110 FRS/GMRS w/ GPS I carry on hunting trips. One of the features I have yet to use allows another Rino user to read your GPS coordinates on their unit while you are transmitting. If I were lost while hunting, I would hope the authorities would be monitoring all those channels. I wonder if they have specialized equipment that allows them to receive my signal at a greater range than another Rino user would?

Edited by norad45 (12/08/06 07:49 PM)

#79013 - 12/08/06 08:20 PM Re: After 7 days, I would have too
Micah513 Offline

Registered: 07/18/06
Posts: 178
Loc: Springfield, MO
Very good point - if you're going to walk out you have to make that risk assesstment while you're still strong enough have a good chance. Waiting a week with little or no food was a huge mistake, but I gotta think his decision was based on having two little ones & the very real chance they might starve. He went to plan B way to late. Like everyone here I think it was a gutzy move & respect him for it. But from pure non-emotional survival assestment standpoint it was a mistake.

It's actually amazing how much ground he covered based on his gear, the terrain, the weather and that he didn't appear to have a lot of body fat to run off of in the 1st place.

#79015 - 12/08/06 08:35 PM Re: James Kim: Snowbound Vehicle Info and Analysis
Old_Scout Offline

Registered: 11/03/06
Posts: 95
Loc: Delaware
I certainly see your point and don't dispute it. And I don't intend to malign Mr. Kim. In fact, I have a hard time assuring myself that I wouldn't do the same thing. However, the point of my posts has been that the more training one has the more likely you are to make good decisions when the chips are down. And that training, thought process, has to include contemplation of the worst case scenario - you need a framework for making that tough decision. I would also add that my wife and I have raised three children (with lots of tough outdoors time - I remember the week our second was a baby nursing and the first was about two years and we were in a tent near Lake Missisaugua; +10 deg. F air temp. 20 mph sustained wind and the little one kept crawling out of Mom's sleeping bag. He's now a wildfire crew boss!) and have always, and continue, to discuss with them outdoor living, risks, skills and making tough decisions. Our spouses - our whole families - need to be in on this - know the risks and responses. It may not be perfect but it will make things a lot easier if, and when, the time comes.
See 'Ya Down the Trail,
Mike McGrath

"Be Prepared" "For what?" "Why, any old thing!" B-P

#79016 - 12/08/06 08:42 PM Re: Black Bar Lodge.
cedfire Offline

Registered: 07/10/03
Posts: 659
Loc: Orygun
My thoughts and prayers go out to the Kim family.

The news media makes it sound as if they just took a wrong turn off the freeway. The reality is that they were many, many miles out of the way. I've been to the same area where they were stranded and it was an easy drive in the summer. In the winter that's not the case; in fact the one-lane paved USFS road they took to get to the area isn't even plowed or maintained in the winter. One blurb I heard was that Mr. Kim had to stick his head out of the window while driving to see ahead through the falling snow. There are road signs and notations on maps warning of travel through the area.

I'm glad the wife and children were found. They stayed alive after nine days of being stuck. Unfortunately Mr. Kim's fate wasn't the same.

I hope that others see the story and take something from it. There is not safety or assistance around every corner, and bad things can happen to good people.

#79017 - 12/08/06 08:56 PM Re: James Kim: Snowbound Vehicle Info and Analysis
ducktapeguy Offline

Registered: 03/28/06
Posts: 358
Sorry, didn't mean to confuse anyone with the quote. I was quoting parts of your reply, and one of someone else's in the same post. I just didn't feel like making two separate posts.

#79018 - 12/08/06 10:17 PM Re: James Kim: Snowbound Vehicle Info and Analysis
Arney Offline

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
I have wondered this myself, particularly when it comes to aerial searches since line-of-sight can greatly extend the normal range of these radios. SAR authorities will generally try to ascertain what kinds of clothing, food, and equipment lost people have, right?

Assuming that SAR is notified that I have a FRS radio on Channel 1 (for argument's sake), I wonder if the aerial searchers can take advantage of that? Can their radios access that band? Alternatively, I suppose that they could take a FRS radio up with them, crank up the volume, and hold it next to their ear to hear over the noise of the engine/rotors, but is that actually practical for them? I have no idea. I would like to think that a small, inexpensive, license-free consumer two-way radio can help, but practically speaking, maybe it's wouldn't. Dunno.

#79019 - 12/08/06 11:16 PM Re: Doug Comprehensive Article?
rodmeister Offline
new member

Registered: 03/23/02
Posts: 54
Loc: ca
I totally disagree with you on this issue. The intent of an article by Doug would be to SAVE LIVES, not to add "insult to injury."

My assumption is that the family wouldn't read the article since it would be published in the "Equipped to Survive" web site. If the press gets wind of the article it would be their responsibiltiy. You are assuming that an article by Doug would be wholly critical - Kim probably did a lot of things correctly and we should learn what they were.

Also, and I feel strongly about this: Kim's death would be wasteful tragedy only if we fail to learn from his ordeal. The idea of withholding potentially life saving information to spare the family any pain is just silly when you look at the bigger picture. Emotional pain vs saving lives: no contest. Most deaths are unavoidable, but here is a circumstance when tragedy might have been avoided with additional knowledge, and we have an opportunity to save lives and prevent others from experiencing the grief that befell the Kims'. Imagine a year from now, Mrs. Kim reading a news article about someone surviving a similar situation because he learned from her husband's tragedy. I think she would be proud that her husband's death was not in vain, and some good came from it.

#79020 - 12/08/06 11:24 PM Re: James Kim: Snowbound Vehicle Info and Analysis
camerono Offline

Registered: 02/19/05
Posts: 146
I'm not married and no kids but. This makes me think I would seriously consider a few things. I could say with confidence that any woman I would be involved with would NOT consider being prepared to the extent I would hope. That said if I did have a wife and children nothing would make a better non-holiday gift than a PLB. I know I would sleep much better at night given the situation.

I have on a few occasions come across vehicles crashed over an embankment that maybe could have used a PLB.

Much food for thought for me.

Cameron Ownbey
Publishing seattlebackpackersmagazine.com

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