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#78887 - 12/06/06 01:36 AM Re: James Kim: Snowbound Vehicle Info and Analysis
widget Offline
Addict

Registered: 07/06/03
Posts: 550
This incident is an easy one for us on this forum to critique. Look at this from another perspective, most people do not plan to be in a wilderness situation while driving down the highway and seldom foresee cicumstances to get out of control and compound. Many people depend on cell phones and fail to reailize they just seldom work off the beaten path, that may change someday, but I doubt it is finacially viable for cell phone carriers to put up towers where few travellers go.
It is real easy to go from a comfortable road trip to being stranded, even on an Interstate in a snowstorm you can be off the road, injured or stuck for many hours, in very short order. Having some items to help you stay warm, hydrated and safe does not take much planning, but it does take execution and truly few people are ready to cope with much outside their comfort zone. They just don't see it happening to them.
I can also understand what motivated Mr. Kim to take the risk of going for help, he had a wife and 2 beautiful children and in concern for their safety he made a decision to take a larger risk himself to bring help to his family. I truly pray that was not a fatal decision and Mr. Kim is found alive and well. He did a very brave thing regardless of "what he should have done". He was doing what he felt he must. I admire that and understand his decision, whether I agree with it or not.
Having said all that, this again brings to mind that all of us in the know on these matters, should share our knowledge with anyone we can to prevent this from happening again, if we only reach one person, that is progress.
PLB's are great but how many people are willing to invest that much money on something they foresee no real need for? GPS is a better investment in my eyes, just because it has a daily return on the investment. It will not get you rescued, it will keep you from getting lost on the wrong road. Which brings another aspect to mind, when is a road the wrong road? Why close a road because you don't want to plow it? Why not mark it closed to keep people from using it during the winter?
I can understand a person who regularly travels wild country or flys in a personal aircraft having interest in buying a PLB. The occasional highway driver just doesn't see the need, if they even know there is such a thing as a PLB.
I ramble, sorry. Let us all hope and pray for Mr. Kim, he deserves our support.
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No, I am not Bear Grylls, but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night and Bear was there too!

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#78888 - 12/06/06 03:27 AM Re: James Kim: Snowbound Vehicle Info and Analysis
jmbrowning Offline
model citizen
Stranger

Registered: 09/05/04
Posts: 19
More newsbytes:

  • Kati Kim is expected to lose a toe to exposure injury
  • Trousers matching the description of James Kim's pants were found in the canyon. Although officials suggest it might be a marker to indicate his path of travel, wilderness medicine experts consider it to be a sign of delirium due to severe hypothermia. The gray pants had been worn over his blue jeans.
  • County officials are using small rafts to travel up along the creek to search for signs of James Kim.
  • "Heat-seeking" (?FLIR equipped) helicopters are being used to search for Kim.
  • James Kim had outdoor experience as a car camper and met his wife on a camping trip.
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#78889 - 12/06/06 03:35 AM Re: James Kim: Snowbound Vehicle Info and Analysis
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
Yep, my first thought when I read they found the trousers was "that's not good". They can put all the positive spin they want, but survival physiology tells me that his thermal regulation is losing the battle.
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Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
Okay, what’s your point??

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#78890 - 12/06/06 03:37 AM Re: James Kim: Snowbound Vehicle Info and Analysis
ironraven Offline
Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
I think if he's found, he's had all the poke he needs to know to (a) stay with the car and (b) scenic roads in winter are a bit sketchy. I don't think any of us are damning him, but instead dissecting the incident based on the information given.

I heard the same piece browning did about finding his pants. It makes me thing we're going to need a sceance to reach him, and I hope I'm wrong, or better, that the newsies got it wrong.

That said, I think most of us here try to educate. But people, as a rule, don't want to listen: "Don't worry, I've done it a hundred times." Famous last words at number 101.
_________________________
-IronRaven

When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

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#78891 - 12/06/06 05:25 AM Re: James Kim: Snowbound Vehicle Info and Analysis
Burncycle Offline
Addict

Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 577
"I shouldn't be alive" on the discovery channel covered this incident as well.

And then, "Science of Survival" covered this incident again, this time mixed with Les Stroud from Survivorman giving pointers and demonstrations on how to tear up the vehicle for parts

http://science.discovery.com/tvlistings/...amp;channel=SCI

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#78892 - 12/06/06 07:35 AM Re: James Kim: Snowbound Vehicle Info and Analysis
jmbrowning Offline
model citizen
Stranger

Registered: 09/05/04
Posts: 19
Update:

  • Previous report regarding Kim carrying snowshoes may be incorrect
  • Tonight will be Kim's fourth night in subfreezing temperatures

Current weather conditions in Grants Pass, OR
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#78893 - 12/06/06 07:46 AM Re: James Kim: Snowbound Vehicle Info and Analysis
LED Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/01/05
Posts: 1474
i read somewhere that Kim left with 2 lighters, and considering the area is heavily wooded, i would assume he would start a fire once the sun started going down. at least i hope thats what he's doing. anyone know if he took one of the car's mirrors with him? or any other critical supplies?

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#78894 - 12/06/06 08:31 AM Re: James Kim: Snowbound Vehicle Info and Analysis
jmbrowning Offline
model citizen
Stranger

Registered: 09/05/04
Posts: 19
Quote:
I think if he's found, he's had all the poke he needs to know to (a) stay with the car and (b) scenic roads in winter are a bit sketchy. I don't think any of us are damning him, but instead dissecting the incident based on the information given.


I'd say there is always a lot to be learned from someone else's victories and mistakes.

Quote:
I heard the same piece browning did about finding his pants. It makes me thing we're going to need a sceance to reach him, and I hope I'm wrong, or better, that the newsies got it wrong.


At first, I thought it was just a short gully he went into and figured he ditched his pants to wade in for some water to drink, but video on TV shows that this is VERY rugged terrain. Google Maps shows that it is pretty steep also. To retrieve the pants, they had to lower a guy from a chopper hovering over the trousers.

Everyday worsens the outlook for sure. Barometric pressure is dropping with hi humidity and increase in wind this weekend. 20-60% chance of precipitation on Saturday and Sunday.

Quote:
That said, I think most of us here try to educate. But people, as a rule, don't want to listen: "Don't worry, I've done it a hundred times." Famous last words at number 101.


It's sad, but James Kim's most recent write-up on CNET was about the Zune media player ($250). For the price of 2 Zunes or Ipods, he could have purchased an inexpensive 406 PLB like the FastFind. With a PLB, he and Kati would be stressing out over a $3000 tow out on a snowy frozen NF road instead of this horrific nightmare.

There are a lot of gadget bloggers following this. I hope they are able to increase awareness regarding PLB's. This may be a double-edged sword, though, as there is increased ownership of PLB's there will inevitably be increased false alarms and misutilization of limited SAR resources. Increased demand might also drive down per unit cost, however.

This may also increase understanding of the limitations of the cellular network, whether for handheld or On-Star systems.
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#78895 - 12/06/06 09:19 AM Re: James Kim: Snowbound Vehicle Info and Analysis
jmbrowning Offline
model citizen
Stranger

Registered: 09/05/04
Posts: 19
Update:
  • James Kim had printed out a Mapquest route but requested a scenic route from Wilsonville Chamber of Commerce
  • The visitor center rep printed a map but counselled the family not to take the route as it would most likely be after dark.
  • GeoEye's Ikonos imaging satellite with 39" resolution will be rerouted over the search area Dec 6 1030 to take images in search of Kim. Unclear who will analyze images for use in ground and air search.
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#78896 - 12/06/06 10:34 AM Re: James Kim: Snowbound Vehicle Info and Analysis
JohnN Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 10/10/01
Posts: 966
Loc: Seattle, WA

It seems like he perhaps thought he was cutting switchbacks when he went off road. However, crashing brush in the NW is not something for the faint hearted.

It can be very difficult terrain to traverse and very easy to get disoriented. Esp. if you don't have detailed maps and a good sense of where you are in relationship to the map.

And normally you will get wet. Very wet. Perhaps it was frozen enough to prevent that, but if so, that has it's own problems.

And it's easy to get hurt. It's slippery, uneven, there are lots of holes, roots, rotted logs, etc.

I wish him and his family the best, but it's a pretty bad scene IMO.

As others have observed, it's easy to get caught off guard. Even when you focus on being prepared, it's easy to be caught.

For example, I just flew to San Jose for a couple days, and as a result I tore my kit apart and have yet to get it back together.

Likewise, we were hauling some stuff the other day and it took days for me to remember to re-load the kits into the Jeep.

Hopefully this will help remind people (it certainly has reminded me) that we do need to stay prepared, because things don't happen at convenient times.

While I agree a PLB would be optimal in a situation like this, I don't think it is reasonble to expect most people to purchase one. If the extent of their outdoor activities were car camping, they just are not going to see the need.

Personally, I think the most leveraged thing they could have had was clothing. Perhaps is he was better equipped, he might have stayed with the car. Perhaps if he was better equipped he wouldn't have feel compelled to leave the road.

Clothes. Boots. The ability to start a fire. And some food.

-john

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