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#77959 - 11/24/06 10:15 PM Exploding Lithium Flashlight Batteries?
Doug_Ritter Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/28/01
Posts: 2198
See: http://www.equipped.org/blog/?p=42

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#77960 - 11/24/06 10:59 PM Re: Exploding Flashlight Batteries?
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
One of my favorite flashlighlights is the Underwater Kinetics UK 4AA eLED, 18 hours on a set of alkaline batteries.
Quote:
This light is designed for industrial applications and has the following hazardous location ratings listed on the packaging:

UL: CL I, DIV II, GP A, B, C, D, CL II, DIV 2 GP G, CL III, DIV 2 T4
I called the company and spoke to an engineer about whether or not the light could be used with lithium batteries, because the specs call for Alkaline batteries. The light is fully regulated, so lithium batteries will work and should give even longer runtime with a longer shelf-life. However, per the company, use of lithium batteries nullifies all of those hazardous area ratings. The light has a pressure vent in its tailcap in case I do decide to disregard the manufacturer's recommendation. It would probably work and I've considered trying lithium batteries, but if the issue is sporadic, it may test fine and then fail when you really need it.

As for the debrief at Doug's link, quality control rules. The lithium batteries I have on hand are Energizer AA and AAA and Surefire 123's.
_________________________
Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
Okay, what’s your point??

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#77961 - 11/25/06 01:03 AM Re: Exploding Lithium Flashlight Batteries?
spuddate Offline
Newbie

Registered: 11/27/05
Posts: 37
Loc: Southern California
The second "explosion" was probably the good cell set off by heat from the first cell to fail. The CR123 cells have a flammable electrolyte. With two cells, one is close to the limit allowed for transportation on passenger aircraft by UN and DOT regulations (although it is allowed since they are in an apparatus). There is a lot of energy there that can cause a problem when something goes wrong.

Chinese Li-MnO2 (CR123) and Li-FeS2 (similar to Eveready L91) are generally not as safe as Japanese or American made cells. (The Chinese cells are improving, so don't think they won't be as good in a few years.) They use different electrolytes and lack some features. It should be noted that most "American" made CR123 cells are made in Japan, or in a Japanese designed plant, and wrapped with the US manufacturer's label. The Japanese Li cells and Eveready L91 and L92 cells are a fine product that can be trusted. However, Eveready alkaline cells have a tendance to leak due to a poor crimp seal design. Duracell has a better seal design. I have had less experience with RayOVac alkaline cells, but all experience to date has been favorable.

Button cells have much less energy, so failure is not as dramatic. Because the cell case cannot take much pressure without deforming, poor electrolytes or internal problems are readily observable. Considering all the button cells in watches, with very few problems, one can be confident in button cells. Again, most are made in Japan, often packaged with a US manufactuer's name. Japan really knows how to make a quality product.

Finally, I agree that one should not look to save money on batteries by buying cheap, unless it is cheaper because of buying in bulk. There is a lot of energy in cells that can cause problems if released as heat rather than electrical work. One carries the weight of batteries because they are needed, so spend a little more and buy quality.

Spud

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#77962 - 11/25/06 02:22 PM Re: Exploding Lithium Flashlight Batteries?
redflare Offline
Addict

Registered: 12/25/05
Posts: 647
Loc: SF Bay Area, CA
This whole episode sounded pretty scary to me. Its one thing, if you are carrying a flashlight around and it catches on fire, but when it catches on fire in a confined space, like a cockpit of an airplane, you got a whole new set of problems.

I think it’s only a matter of time before one of these cases ends up before a judge in a court. Such a case could be extremely damaging since when lawyers sue, they sue everyone involved and not involved: manufacturer, wholesaler, retailer, Internet provider and website host where a flashlight was purchased.

As the author rightfully concluded, for your own and other's safety: "DO NOT USE CHINESE MADE CYLINDRICAL LITHIUM BATTERIES."

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#77963 - 11/25/06 02:52 PM Re: Exploding Lithium Flashlight Batteries?
widget Offline
Addict

Registered: 07/06/03
Posts: 550
Way back in the mid '70s when lithium batteries first came along, Larry Penberthy (founder of MSR) sold a single D cell to replace the 4 D cells in a Justrite headlight. At the time, we all used the Justrite for mountain rescue because it had 10-24 hours of usable light, depending on the bulb.
It was specified that we had to have an air vent in the battery case because of the venting gas from the lithium cell. The battery case Penberthy sold was a plastic cigarette case with a cheap battery clamp to hold 2 cells, one was a shunt dummy to allow the single cell continuity. The batteries were very expensive for the day and only came as 3v D size.
Batteries have come a very long was since then and nowadays you do not see much about potential hazards mentioned, personally, I thought the original problems had been solved to the point venting was not so much an issue. I always wonder how my waterproof Inova with two CR123 batteries is holding up with the sealed case. So far, so good.
I once put a set of Energizer Titanium batteries in a Mini-Mag and while using it it got so hot I could not hold it in my hand, had to drop it and took it outside, turned off to let it cool. Later I checked on it, it was still very hot and after opening the light, one battery had expanded and leaked causing some sort of chemical reaction which caused the heating. The batteries were brand new and it would seem, did not like the sealed mini-mag case! I have not bought any more titanium batteries since and went back to standard alkalines.
Battery fires and explosions are not something most people expect, but certainly need to be aware of! Cheers!
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#77964 - 11/25/06 05:47 PM Re: Exploding Lithium Flashlight Batteries?
Alan_Romania Offline

Addict

Registered: 06/29/05
Posts: 648
Loc: Arizona
It was interesting to see that burnt up battery. Having used Lithium batteries for a number of years almost exclusively for my outdoors and survival gear having zero problems.
I recently switched back to Alkaline because my new GPSMAP 60CSx does not like Lithium batteries, it actually shuts itself down. It is a shame because Lithium batteries offer a number of benefits in a survival situation, longer life and shelf life and less weight. I hope to find a solution to this issue soon, Garmin claims their software update has fixed it but practical experience has proven otherwise.
_________________________
"Trust in God --and press-check. You cannot ignore danger and call it faith." -Duke

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#77965 - 11/25/06 07:14 PM Re: Exploding Lithium Flashlight Batteries?
spuddate Offline
Newbie

Registered: 11/27/05
Posts: 37
Loc: Southern California
A follow up note regarding Energizer Alkaline cells. If you use the cells within a year or two, and the temperatures are moderate, you will have little problem with the Energizer Alkaline cells. For long term use, or storage for emergencies, I have found approximately 40% to leak. Thus for longer term uses, I now rely on Duracells.

One must always remember that there is a lot of energy in a battery cell. Use what you need, but realize the risk. Don't use a high rate cell such as a CR123 unless you need the high rate capability. I want a flashlight to last many hours, more than 10h on a set of batteries, so a lower rate (and therefore safer) cell works great. Thus I tend to use a lot of alkaline cells, rechargeable NiMHx, and Li button cells.

Spud

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#77966 - 11/25/06 08:46 PM Re: Exploding Lithium Flashlight Batteries?
Brangdon Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/12/04
Posts: 1204
Loc: Nottingham, UK
> my new GPSMAP 60CSx does not like Lithium batteries, it actually shuts itself down.

Eeek! I have one of those (without the S). I just went and tested it and it has the same issue. I tried putting the NiMh back in and changing the battery type in the set-up screen to Li-Ion (sic - it certainly won't run on Li-ion rechargeables and apparently this option is the one which is supposed to work with Lithium) and it still didn't work.

Interestingly, my older GPSMap 60 does work with Lithium. I suspect I tested it when I got and and tried it again just now. I hadn't retested the newer device until I saw your post. I had been carrying a pair of Lithiums as my emergency backup for the GPS unit, thinking they would work.

Thanks for the warning. I've just sent ETS a $10 donation via their JustGive link, because this may have saved me some severe embarrassment.
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Quality is addictive.

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#77967 - 11/25/06 08:54 PM Re: Exploding Lithium Flashlight Batteries?
Alan_Romania Offline

Addict

Registered: 06/29/05
Posts: 648
Loc: Arizona
Garmin assures me that they are working on the problem. I did try a set of Lithium batteries that were run down to under 1.5v each, and they did work perfectly.
_________________________
"Trust in God --and press-check. You cannot ignore danger and call it faith." -Duke

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#77968 - 11/25/06 08:54 PM Re: Exploding Lithium Flashlight Batteries?
Brangdon Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/12/04
Posts: 1204
Loc: Nottingham, UK
Something the article doesn't say: if your Lithium or Li-ion battery does vent with flame, avoid breathing the fumes or getting any of the ejecta on your skin. It can have some nasty stuff in it. If you do get it on you you need to take it very seriously. You may think you are OK at first, but after a few hours the compounds break down into things which poison you, by which time they will have migrated all over your body. There are cases in the Candlepower forums; nobody died, but they were off work for a few days and, eg, unable to drive themselves to the hospital. As I recall, the symptoms included an all-over body rash and the liver going into over-drive to try to metabolise the poison.
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Quality is addictive.

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