Hi Everyone,
I've been lurking for a few weeks, and have gotten some good info from the boards. Thank you all for sharing your knowledge. I thought I'd give it a whirl and post to introduce myself.

My husband & I live in southern California. We?re avid campers who (unfortunately) don?t get to go as much as we would like. I spend a decent amount of time on the ocean (kayaking & outrigger canoe paddling) and hiking in the foothills/mountains around the area. I made a point of learning the basics of using a map & compass, and recently completed an online Wilderness Survival course. We?re planning to do more backcountry camping & backpacking this fall/winter, and we?re looking forward to improving upon our skills. It?s very likely that I?m the only woman in Orange County with no plastic parts and no desire to hang out at the mall. <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> (Well, unless there?s an REI at the mall).

We?re working on our emergency supplies, although we do have a ways to go. As apartment dwellers with a one-car garage, we are limited in space. (Kayaks and 2 tons of camping gear live in the garage.) So far, we have a decent sized Rubbermaid tote with food for the two of us (and our two cats), that would last us at least 7 days after everything else in the kitchen is gone, given a ?shelter in home? emergency. I have a full 5-gallon water jug in the garage (which, needs to be moved up into the apartment), 3 additional gallon bottles of water, and three 2-liter Platypus bottles that I keep in the freezer. [If you aren?t familiar with Platypus bottles, they are excellent! We freeze them and use them in our coolers for car camping ? and they will help keep the refrigerator/freezer cool in the event of an electricity loss. Then, afterwards, cold drinking water is ready and waiting.]

I'm betting that in any sort of "shelter in place" order, my husband & I are likely to be among the only people in a 5-10 square block area that even have any sort of plan at all, much less food/water supplies. But I'm CERTAIN that there are others in the area that are well armed.

QUESTION: What seems like a reasonable firearm choice in our situation? We are in a four-unit apartment building, facing the street. The neighbors that we know are decent people, but you never know what other people will do in a crisis. I?ve been hesitant to own a gun, although my brothers and father have had them for quite some time. A friend of my husband is getting a 9mm to keep at home in case the SHTF. He and his fianc? are going to the shooting range for lessons/practice. Would a 9mm be the way to go? Would a small caliber shotgun be better/safer? Reasons either way?

Thanks in advance for your advice!

OhOh, a firearm thread. I'll post before this hits 100 replies. By firearm you seem to be implying a handgun for urban defense. You have no experience. I am going to suggest a rather bread and butter OLDER Smith and Wesson, RUGER or Colt double action in .357 magnum or .38 spl( thoroughly checked by a gunsmith for timing and trigger pull.) You have several frame sizes that can be matched to your grip and reach of finger along with countless aftermarket improved grips. You can learn, practise and USE The .38 special in both pieces.The 38 is a relatively easy cartridge to shoot, accurate and available in a wide variety of load configurations including snake shot, Glaser safety slugs ( for those thin apt walls) and '+P' loads approaching .357 magnum power. This is also an excellent trailgun if you worry about lions, dogs or our fellow bipedals. A DA revolver is a SAFE firearm. You can readilly see if it is loaded and bringing one into action requires merely picking up and pulling the trigger. The safety is in that heavier DA pull, not foolproof but a deterrent to little hands. This thread is going to very quickly get buried in ballistics, anecdotes, myth and legend. I think OLD BALD GUY and our other law enforcement members will concur.

HappyCamperToo,

First, welcome to group. It sounds like you are well on your way to being ready for stuff.

Secondly, listen to Mr. Kavanaugh. In some cases you may have to read between the lines (often with a dictionary, history book and a Tibetan guidebook near at hand<img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />), but on gun threads he is definately a man from which much can be learned.

-Blast, who also has prepared wife.

I third Chris's revolver recommendations --- real, no nonsense, sound advise.

You took the words right out of my mouth. After reading this forum over the last several years, there are a lot of very opinionated gun owners on this site. For a new shooter, who may not get to practice much, a 38 special revolver makes a lot of sense (or even a 357 revolver loaded with 38 special amunition). They are very simple to use. Point, pull trigger. No safeties to worry about, nothing to break. Frangible bullets would work well in the close confines of an apartment without the danger of penetration into your neighbors space.

A 9 mm would also work, but if you don't spend time practicing, could cause issues under stress. Racking the slide to load a round, manipulating the safety, magazine issues. I like them and practice with them. Frangible rounds are also available for 9 mm, as well as most other pistol sizes.

Whatever you end up with, practice. Most self defense gurus say you should shoot a minimum of 500 rounds of your self defense ammo through your weapon of choice so that you are certain that it will perform when required. 500 rounds of frangible ammo will fairly well break the bank. Certainly you should shoot 500 rounds of something that looks similar in profile, and at least two boxes of your self defense ammo.

It is always good to hear of someone new taking up shooting.

Well, I won't attempt to answer the firearm question as I am way too much of a novice but I will say Hello and welcome to a fellow Orange County dweller who has a wife without any plastic ( except what is in her purse ) and only spends time at a mall when she needs something. And like yourself, REI is a favorite of hers.
So, stick around and you will learn alot from a bunch of interesting and friendly folks on this forum. I know I have.
:Kenn

Welcome aboard. I'm Grumpy- the other dwarves will introduce themselves later. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I think most people here are probably going to agree with Chris on this one. A medium frame revolver is about as idiot proof as you can get, and used ones are inexpensive enough. A good, used Smith, Colt or Taurus with a 3-4" barrel shouldn't put you back more than $200 dollars, and that is on the high side. For a gun that isn't going to be a field gun terrifically often, I'm not sure if I'd put too much emphasis on getting stainless steel. Just remember to clean it.

I would also suggest some things to go with:
At least one speedloader (a gadget that holds a cylinder's worth of ammunition that has a push button release)- that way you can store it unloaded and still load it in a few seconds. (Enough time to wake up.) It isn't that much, may 20 bucks if you buy pricy ones, but you want one that will release the rounds easily. Try it in the shop before you buy.

Try to get tritium or fiberoptic inserts on the sights- you can't see your sights in the dark if they are plain steel. That's a gunsmith job for most folks, but worth every penny becuase you can now use your sights in darkness (or near darkness with the fiber optics- it's suprising how much light they can grab).

A BRIGHT light, like a Surefire G2 or a Streamlight Scorpion. You won't use it all the time, but flash it. These things will get your attention, and at point blank range into dark adapted eyes, it's almost a physical force.

A second revolver, built on the same size frame as the .38, but in .22 Long Rifle. You can buy a "brick" of 500 rounds of .22 for less than 50 rounds of normal .38 or twelve rounds of Glasers or Mag-Safes (extremely effective AND they are probably the safest pistol rounds for indoors). Try to shoot with the .22 at least once a week until you can cover the group you make in paper at a distance similiar to, say, the distance between the far side of your bed and the door to your bedroom. And even then, weekly or at least monthly practice is recommended, so you can keep your skills sharp.

Some cheap practice ammo for the .38. The .22 is a good trainer, but the .38 will kick more and bark louder, so you'll have to be familiar with that. Even though you might be doing the bulk of your range time with the .22 becuase of expense, the .38 is what you'll be counting on. Just remember to keep the practice stuff and the defensive stuff seperated.

Crimson Trace grips aren't terrifically expensive, and I would consider them a worthwhile option for a lot of reasons. They are replacement grips that contain a laser sight, which has psychological and tactical advantages for you (people know the little red dot is NOT thier friend- again, if you can get out of it with shooting someone, great). However, you need to learn to shoot without the projected aiming point (batteries die at the darnedest times), which is what the .22 and cheap .38 ammo is for.

I will add my welcome aboard and also suggest that a .357 magnum loaded with .38 special is a good choice. It is what my lady uses, and I have no issues with her choice. I should also add that I carried a .357 magnum for many years as a LEO, and it worked every time.

BUT....a pistol and a shotgun are not mutually exclusive. If there are two of you, two firearms might be handy. And a pistol and a shotgun compliment each other well. That is why the combination has been used in police vehicles since they were invented.

But, no matter what you finally decide, please get quality instruction (especially shoot/don't shoot instruction), and practice frequently. If you ever need to use a firearm in anger, the life you save will be your own, and probably your loved ones as well.

I'll make one final observation before retiring to monitor the ballistics shootout to follow. I get a laugh out of 'survivalist' forums that talk about black helicopters hovering over the back yard, yet post multiple download photos of their personal arsenals. People, like your friends with the 9MM have this compelling need to 'show off' firearms. It's one of those red button social objects like new cars or a puppy. I've owned 6 different 1911s. My shooting friends will by one and still hand it over for my admiration, as if something has changed in nearly 100 years. Do yourself a big favor, and make like Elmer Fudd- " be vewy, vewy quiet" and discrete about firearm possession. Firearms are actually a prime target of burglaries. Guns carry a disproportionate social burden in today's society compared to a few generations ago. A little discretion alleviates much of it. <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

My non-Mall wife and I had this same discussion several weeks ago and came to a different conclusion--instead of a handgun we bought a shotgun (Remington 870 pump action 12 gauge), which I promptly modified to hold a total of 10 rounds.

I'm not disagreeing with Chris' reccomendation. With a small child in the house, and no cheap means of securing a handgun (biometric lock boxes are around $400), the shotgun was the best choice _for us_. We own a house in a reclaimed inner city neighborhood; the shotgun is loaded with birdshot, which is lethal at bedroom range. I have slugs and 00 buck in quantity available "for the marauding hordes of looters" if necessary <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'd prefer a 1911, but the wife is more comfortable with a longarm. Your mileage may vary.