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#72284 - 08/30/06 07:29 PM Re: My latest outing
Boacrow Offline
journeyman

Registered: 08/18/06
Posts: 85
I appreciate your post Leigh. You make alot of sense. Alot of people just assume that their kit will cover every situation, but the fact is, nature has a way of making up new situations really fast. I have seen things while out that should never happen but they do. I must admit that I have been caught unaware more than once. Often as not, luck will save you when gear won't. That and the ability to adapt to an ever changing environment. I have no problem relying on luck when all else fails but when luck runs out as well, I have to think fast. That's one of the things that has helped me develop the skills that I have now. If things go perfect, then you won't learn anything.

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#72285 - 08/30/06 08:03 PM Re: My latest outing
JIM Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 1032
Loc: The Netherlands
Quote:
If you like, we could go out sometime and try out our individual methods.


I don't know where you live and if it would be possible, but it sounds like fun.

Please don't take the post as that I think I know it better. I'm just scetching a scenario when something goes wrong on your outing, with next to no equipment. If you're for example immobilised, some techniques may not work, and then you may need equipment to make it easier for you with a injury.
_________________________
''It's time for Plan B...'' ''We have a Plan B?'' ''No, but it's time for one.'' -Stargate SG-1

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#72286 - 08/31/06 02:18 AM Re: Where, What materials & Mosquitos
ironraven Offline
Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
And you're going to do that in an hour?

Nothing personal, but I want to see it- you must be moving at a run if you have a 20'x20' shelter up in an hour, and using nothing but natural materials. Unless you have stuff preassembled. And using that technique, I don't see why you complained that the floor of your tent was wet. This won't stop water from running under.
_________________________
-IronRaven

When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

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#72287 - 08/31/06 01:29 PM Re: Where, What materials & Mosquitos
Boacrow Offline
journeyman

Registered: 08/18/06
Posts: 85
You should probably stick to what you know. The first thing you have to realize is that water doesn't run uphill. Using that simple bit of information, I can find a spot that is on a slight rise thus preventing water from running in. It's not that complicated. As far as building the shelter fast goes, that is also a simple proposition. All you need to know is how to tie knots. Of course if you don't know that water doesn't run uphill, you might face the boughs the wrong way and flood the site anyway. The thing to remember is, that to build a shelter that works, you only have to tie four knots. If you can keep the corners of the frame together, you're halfway there. Once you get the four knots tied, assuming you have gotten that far, hoist it up in a tree, assuming you are actually in the woods. The last step, assuming you have made it this far, is to cover it with branches. As long as you point the branches downward, the water will run off. The branches will provide their own structural support so no new knots are needed. If you have problems with this, then a BOB probably won't save you. Maybe you should walk down to the rangers station and have a cup of cocoa. Remember, four knots does not take forever. It's just like tying your shoes twice. How long should that take?

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#72288 - 08/31/06 03:40 PM Re: Where, What materials & Mosquitos
Simon Offline


Registered: 04/24/06
Posts: 398
Loc: Tennessee
If not a video, we need pictures then. Maybe Les Stroud could learn something from you. Nothing personal, but not everyone can afford financially or even has the time to accept your challenges to people like Jim (in the Netherlands) when you defend your posts.
_________________________
Me, a vegetarian? My set of teeth came with canines.

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#72289 - 08/31/06 06:08 PM Re: Where, What materials & Mosquitos
Micah513 Offline
Member

Registered: 07/18/06
Posts: 178
Loc: Springfield, MO
--> then top it with boughs <---

Are you talking about Cedar branches?

What continent, country, state are you doing this in?

If it's similar to around here I would like to try this method a couple times.

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#72290 - 08/31/06 06:21 PM Re: Where, What materials & Mosquitos
Frozen Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 01/07/05
Posts: 86
I hate to be the first to call troll on Boacrow, but if he is one, he's very good at it. More like fly fishing.

_________________________
“Expectation strolls through the spacious fields of Time towards Opportunity.” Umberto Eco

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#72291 - 08/31/06 06:52 PM Re: Where, What materials & Mosquitos
Boacrow Offline
journeyman

Registered: 08/18/06
Posts: 85
I live in the south so I try to use pine whenever possible. It's easy to work with. the needles are longer and the sap is sticky so it may play a role as well. I'm not sure where you are but any kind of tree limb will work I suppose.

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#72292 - 08/31/06 07:17 PM Re: Where, What materials & Mosquitos
Leigh_Ratcliffe Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/06
Posts: 1355
Loc: United Kingdom.
I throught he was poking fun at us gear freaks and making a valid point.
_________________________
I don't do dumb & helpless.

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#72293 - 08/31/06 07:23 PM Re: Where, What materials & Mosquitos
Boacrow Offline
journeyman

Registered: 08/18/06
Posts: 85
Les Stroud is much better with plants than I am but I have watched his show and I am constantly amazed that he survives at all. I watch him sit beside a stream or lake and complain about how hungry he is. If there is any significant amount of water around, there is planty of food to be had. I also remember a pig running him up a tree. Now I've dealt with pigs before. That one was not that big. Judging from cues around the pig, I would say maybe 50lbs tops. It also didn't have tusks. That pig could've easily been dinner. I'm sorry, but I don't think he is all that great. The abilities he has comes straight out of a boy scout manual. I don't know if he does it that way for a dramatic effect or if he really doesn't know any better. I would hope and suspect it's mostly for effect. At any rate, if you spend as much time as I have outdoors and reading as much material as I have, then you learn other ways of doing things. Also it helps to read a little history. Find out how the natives lived. Find out about the pioneers and why they had it so hard when the natives living all around them were thriving with no metal tools, no horses or pack animals of any kind, and they didn't even have wagons (at least they didn't have any of this stuff till the white man started trading with them). I encourage you all to go to the library and read some books on the daily life of the natives. It's truly amazing. I have no problem with gear or anything like that, in fact I've even mentioned that I use gear, but I don't see a need to crucify a guy just because he doesn't have to have it. If worse came to worse and I had no gear at all, I could make do. I have done it. If you don't think it can be done, then I think that survival may not be your strong suit. It may be that cacmping is more in line with what you are wanting to do. The fact of the matter is, if something comes along that's serious enough to make you leave your home for survival, chances are, it's going to be for more than three days. I am prepared for that. If I die in the process so be it, but I think I've got a better than average shot. And I would bet good money I could make it longer than alot of the people replying to this post. I didn't ask anyone to believe anything that is impossible or even outlandish. I simply said that tents weren't for me. If tents are your thing then good for you. It really doesn't matter to me. But if I say I can make a shelter, what's so hard to believe? You watched Les do it more than once. The one he made was a bit more involved than the ones I make since the frame is more elaborate, but I don't doubt that he could make his pretty fast. I certainly hope he can since he usually waits till the sun starts setting to start working on it. I guess all I'm trying to say is, if you don't believe what I say is true, that's fine by me, don't reply unless you can prove that in some way or another what I suggest is dangerous to others. If it's not, leave it alone. Making a shelter is one of the most elementary things you can do. If you don't know how, that's your problem. I promise you this though, I would rather have the knowledge to survive without gear over the gear to survive without knowledge. You have obviously made your choice as well.

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