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#669 - 05/10/01 09:51 PM Doug's Personal Kit
billvann Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 05/10/01
Posts: 780
Loc: NE Illinois, USA (42:19:08N 08...
I am very interested in Doug's personal Survival kit. My oldest son is considering working towards Wilderness Survival Merit Badge at summer camp this year and one of the requirements is to make such a kit. He doesn't have the pamphlet yet so I don't know how "their" kit compares. It will be interesting to see how and where they differ and are alike.<br> <br>I do have several questions on Doug's:<br><br>>>>20 ft. Brass Snare Wire<br>What gauge do you recommend?<br><br>>>>11 in. Teflon Tube<br>Where can I find info on how to use it for water seeps?<br><br>>>>1 Brunton 15MM Button Compass<br>I can't seem to locate a source. Do you think one of those zipper pulls could be cut down instead?<br><br>>>>1 Drug Information Sheet<br>Is this the printout from the pharmacist or is the information from a different source?<br><br>>>>2 Condoms (Penrith Survival Equipment)* <br>Is there a alternative? I am an Asst. Scoutmaster and I'm not ready to introduce young men to a condom, possibly for the first time.<br><br>>>>10 ft. H.D. Poly/Cotton Sewing Thread <br>I also do beading projects and most beaders use a nylon covered cotton thread that's very durable. Would there be any problem with substituting? Also, what thickness or gauge is best? Nymo comes in several sizes from very thin gauge for small beads to very thick for heavy glass beads?<br><br>Thanks.<br><br>Willie Vannerson<br>McHenry, IL
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Willie Vannerson
McHenry, IL

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#670 - 05/10/01 10:22 PM Re: Doug's Personal Kit
NAro Offline
Addict

Registered: 03/15/01
Posts: 480
Willie:<br> Here are MY opinions about your questions. <br>>>>20 ft. Brass Snare Wire<br>What gauge do you recommend? <br>Let space in the kit dictate that. I like the largest gauge I can find which I think will stop a rabbit,... because I'll be using it for other purposes, too.<br><br>>>>11 in. Teflon Tube<br>Where can I find info on how to use it for water seeps?<br> Easy. Lie down. Put one end in your mouth and the other in the seep. . If there is a plethora of water, perhaps transfer some to a container. NOTE: If I'm using a seep, I'm not purifying water! Others may disagree.<br><br>>>>1 Brunton 15MM Button Compass<br>I can't seem to locate a source. Do you think one of those zipper pulls could be cut down instead? <br>Why cut it down! www.brunton.com<br><br>>>>1 Drug Information Sheet<br>Is this the printout from the pharmacist or is the information from a different source? <br>The pharmacist's printouts have too much extraneous info. Write, or have your Dr's office write, a mimimal summary.<br><br>>>>2 Condoms (Penrith Survival Equipment)* <br>Is there a alternative? I am an Asst. Scoutmaster and I'm not ready to introduce young men to a condom, possibly for the first time. <br> I can't think of an alternative as small or portable. How about the Platypus bag type canteens?<br><br>>>>10 ft. H.D. Poly/Cotton Sewing Thread <br>I also do beading projects and most beaders use a nylon covered cotton thread that's very durable. Would there be any problem with substituting? Also, what thickness or gauge is best? Nymo comes in several sizes from very thin gauge for small beads to very thick for heavy glass beads?<br><br>Since I may want to use the thread for a suture, I guess I'd stick to the cotton HD (or Carpet) thread myself. But instead I carry several pre-threaded needles/sutures I got from a surgeon friend. Sterile for suturing, but you can easily sew up a clothing rip with it. <br><br>Have fun with this. And make the scouts do more of the research!<br><br><br>

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#671 - 05/11/01 03:26 PM Re: Doug's Personal Kit
Anonymous
Unregistered


Instead of HD thread, you can replace with dental floss or fishing line.<br><br>Spectra fishing line is more expensive that normal fishing line but is much higher strength to size ratio. One spool of line would be enough to make kits for the whole troop.<br><br>Dental floss is available in small packages about the size of a quarter. Last time I checked they were available as a 3 pack for a buck or two at the drug store.<br><br>A good heavy duty thread is coat thread or button thread. It is significantly heavier than heavy duty sewing thread. Less than a dollar for a spool.<br><br>Regardless of what you choose, thread, fishing line or dental floss, it can be rewound onto a sewing bobbin to make it easier to store and use.<br><br>The condon is for storing water. A piece of foil could be made into a passable container. Also useful for making a pot to cook in, a reflector to signal, and treatment for a sucking chest wound. You might want to put the condom or foil container in a sock to add strengh to the container since water is so heavy. The sock acts as a carrying case.<br><br>Check out www.plainsmancabin.com and rummage around in the forum for a poster named BuckShot. He sells snares in bulk for discount. He is a professional trapper that also sells videos about how to set and use snares. Most regular posters at that forum seem to like the 110 conibear traps and snares. I believe his snares are only a buck or two per snare. The brass wire could be used for other stuff but if you are snaring for food, it might make sense to actually have real snares.<br><br>I too would suggest that you get the boys involved in the research. Scouting is supposed to be about the boys, the adults are just to help lead. Todays teenagers can point and click with the best of them. A few searches with Google and they will have more information than they can use.<br><br><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by resqman on 05/11/01 08:55 AM (server time).</EM></FONT></P>

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#672 - 05/11/01 03:33 PM Re: Doug's Personal Kit
billvann Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 05/10/01
Posts: 780
Loc: NE Illinois, USA (42:19:08N 08...
Thanks for the reply.<br><br>>>>20 ft. Brass Snare Wire<br>>>>What gauge do you recommend? <br>>>>Let space in the kit dictate that. I like the largest gauge I >>>can find which I think will stop a rabbit,... because I'll be >>>using it for other purposes, too.<br><br>I would also surmise that it needs to be thin enough to remain flexible enough to use as a snare. I suppose I'll have to learn how to do that and try a few gauges. After all, what good is the wire in the kit if I don't know how to use it? ;-)<br><br>>>>2 Condoms (Penrith Survival Equipment)* <br>>>>Is there a alternative? I am an Asst. Scoutmaster and I'm >>>not ready to introduce young men to a condom, possibly >>>for the first time. <br>>>>I can't think of an alternative as small or portable. How >>>about the Platypus bag type canteens?<br><br>In practice, I alway have carried many "survival" items with me on hikes and trips in my fanny pack. That includes two sport water bottles. Some of these items, such as first aid items, are used, even in non-emergency situations (i.e., mole skin for hot spots or blisters). I would view the kit as an emergency CARE package. Something I'd seal up and not use unless it's an emergency. To this extent, it would be worthwhile to include condoms and/or a suitable replacement. What about ballons? I know they're not sterile, but neither would the condum after the first use. Or a latex (surgical) glove. That might be a bit large and aukward, but it would work. And I wouldn't have any ... err ... explanations to offer to the Scouts. :-)<br><br>>>>10 ft. H.D. Poly/Cotton Sewing Thread <br>>>>I also do beading projects and most beaders use a nylon >>>covered cotton thread that's very durable. Would there be >>>any problem with substituting? Also, what thickness or >>>gauge is best? Nymo comes in several sizes from very >>>thin gauge for small beads to very thick for heavy glass >>>beads?<br>>>>Since I may want to use the thread for a suture, I guess >>>I'd stick to the cotton HD (or Carpet) thread myself. But >>>instead I carry several pre-threaded needles/sutures I got >>>from a surgeon friend. Sterile for suturing, but you can >>>easily sew up a clothing rip with it. <br><br>Beaders have used carpet thread but consider the Nym o to be a step up in durability. The nylon covering also slides well through the holes, which is important if you need to run more than one thread through a bead. I would also wonder if the nylon would be easier to sterilize if one needed to sew up a wound. Cotton is rather porious. The prethreaded suturing kits are a great idea. I'll be seeing my physician for my physical before summer camp, so I can ask for these. But, again, I also need to be aware that it may not an appropriate item for a minor (Scout), unless it's supplied by their gardian.<br><br>>>>Have fun with this. And make the scouts do more of the >>>research!<br><br>I have printed of Doug's lists and his article on outfitting the London to Sidney helicopter. Great reading even if much of it doesn't apply directly apply. But the thought and methodoly on what's include, why and how is truly a facinating learning tool.<br><br><br>Willie Vannerson<br>McHenry, IL
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Willie Vannerson
McHenry, IL

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#673 - 05/11/01 03:43 PM Re: Doug's Personal Kit
billvann Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 05/10/01
Posts: 780
Loc: NE Illinois, USA (42:19:08N 08...
Thanks for the tips, Resqman.<br><br>>>>I too would suggest that you get the boys involved in the research. Scouting is supposed to be about the boys, the adults are just to help lead. <<<<br><br>I agree, and I'm not about to build a batch of kits for the scouts. Rather, I'm learning about it so I can become knowledgable and share my thoughts and enthusiasm. As I mentioned in my first post, I really need to get the merit badge pamplet and see what the BSA take on survival kits is. Sometimes, the pamphlets are right on, and sometimes they are a bit off. They are, after all, writen by people who may have different life experiences.<br><br>BTW, theirs a wonderful web site for Scouts and Leaders at www.meritbadhe.com. In addition to listing all of the riquirements for the ranks, badges and awards, it also provides links to other relevent web site for more research. www.equipped.com is listed under Wilderness Survival. :-)<br><br>Willie Vannerson<br>McHenry, IL
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Willie Vannerson
McHenry, IL

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#674 - 05/11/01 08:39 PM Re: Doug's Personal Kit
Anonymous
Unregistered


I don't know about the whole condom idea. I've tried to put water in one and I just don't get it (especially from shallow water sources). I choose to just leave that out. I carry a water bottle with me in the woods for routine use, and that would become my survival water container. Otherwise, I would have to improvise something. Someone posted here about using a mylar balloon, and that sounded like an idea with promise to me.<br><br>By the same token, I stay away from dental floss and fishing line for general tying. I've tried knotting it in a lot of different ways and I just can't get satisfied with it.<br><br>As for the button compass, yes, those zipper-pulls can be a convenient source if you don't want to mail order one. You can break apart the zipper pull or just grab the compass and pull it right out with pliers. The one I did had some super tape under it.<br><br>I noted that one Boy Scout troop in particular doesn't allow it's Scouts to bring lighters on camping trips. Does your troop have a similar restriction? Is that a BSA regulation? A mini butane lighter would be a good thing for a responsible Scout to have as survival equipment, if allowed.<br><br>Good luck to your Scout with his WS merit bagde. That's one I hold myself.<br><br>

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#675 - 05/11/01 09:13 PM Re: Doug's Personal Kit
billvann Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 05/10/01
Posts: 780
Loc: NE Illinois, USA (42:19:08N 08...
>>>I carry a water bottle with me in the woods for routine use, and that would become my survival water container. <<<<br><br>Of course, STUFF happens, so a container in the kit would still be worthwhile. For example, my watter bottles are in sleeves on either side of my fanny pack main pouch. They're pretty secure, but it is possible that they could fall out if I fall into a river or tumble down a steep incline. Both of those scenarios may never come to pass, but having a condom in the kit that's succured in a zipper pouch or pocket adds protection. I'll look into the mylar ballon. Would that be a small version of the party ballons one can buy (like for lowers)?<br><br>>>>I noted that one Boy Scout troop in particular doesn't allow it's Scouts to bring lighters on camping trips.<<<<br><br>Technically, they are not allowed. But I and my son both carry one. They're the type that's water and wind proof. He's under instructions that he's not to use it unless it's an emergency or urgent (like stating the gas stove under windy conditions). Other than that, we keep them in our belt knife/flashlight pouchs.<br><br>>>>Good luck to your Scout with his WS merit bagde. That's one I hold myself.<<<<br><br>I'm tickled that he picked up on my suggestion. He's not one to be into nature and stuff. He loves camping and especially loves summer camp. But his focus has been on the water sports and handicraft areas. So it'll be interesting to see if he follows through and does in fact decide to sign up.<br><br>Willie Vannerson<br>McHenry, IL
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Willie Vannerson
McHenry, IL

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#676 - 05/12/01 01:02 AM venomous bites
Chris Kavanaugh Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 3824
This information is anecdotal,so please accept this information with that caveat.I just assisted in the care of a horse bitten on the leg by a Pacific Diamondback.I was first on scene,and yes,I used my Sawyer Extractor to good effect awaiting the DVM.Horses cannot benefit from antivenom,as the serum is made with horse blood.They survive mainly with supportive care and their advantage of sheer size.I did use an Echinacea herbal wash on the wound and in it's water supply.This herb is being used as an adjunct to traditional care by many DVM's.I learned of the snakebite use from Reevis Mountain School(listed by Doug)in AZ.I cannot delineat the distinct benefits from traditional care and the herbal use.The DVM was impressed just on field observation.Again,this is anectdotal and the best course is rapid evacuation to a proper facility.<br><br>

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#677 - 05/14/01 03:34 PM water storage
Anonymous
Unregistered


You are right that water storage is important and worthwhile to carry in a kit, even if it is redundant. <br><br>I can't give any specific advice on using a mylar baloon. It was just an idea someone suggested. I don't think that person had even tested it out yet. It would be the standard baloon that you would get at a drug store filled with helium with "Happy Birthday" on it. They can also be purchased uninflated for 2 or 3 dollars each.<br><br>They are sturdy (relatively speaking), compact and light. I think they would be easier to fill than a condom because they wouldn't require as much positive pressure to expand the container. It's easy to fill a condom from a faucett, but try filling it from water standing in a sink basin, and you will see what I am talking about. Of course the mylar baloon would be a bit tricky, too. I haven't tried it. If you are willing to do some experimenting, this is just a suggestion for one area to look at.<br><br>Good Luck.<br><br>

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#678 - 05/14/01 08:45 PM Re: water storage
Chris Kavanaugh Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 3824
I've tried the mylar balloon myself with varying degrees of success.The quality between brands varies,but eventually they all seem to tear.I went with some of the larger,high quality ziplock bags for water carry backup,with more to segregate items in my larger kit. The large intestine of potential food animals makes a fine water container.As an aside,mylar and aluminum are very deadly to wildlife should they be abandoned.I know of two pelicans and a sea turtle that died from ingesting mylar balloons.The taste of uluminum is very sweet to many mammals.Once ingested,it irritates the stomach lining into swelling.The animal starves to death.<br><br>

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