''Jim, you think this kit is scary?''

Absolutely not, the more equipment the better. I also keep a pretty good assortiment of first-aid and A.L.S stuff in my 2 trauma-backpacks.(not for survival use)

But you don't know if the purchaser is trained to handle this stuff. If he is, it's a good addition, but if he doesn't he can make the situation so much worse.....

Purchasing of these Advanced Medical Kits (seems a good discibtion to me) should only be allowed if the guy who is going to use it, know's how to use it and can prove that to the retailer.

Or maybe it should only be possible to get special stuff like sutures,hemostats etc. on prescription and not from the (anonymous) internet?

What do you think?

Jim, I do not mean to knock your commitment and enthusiasm. But if I remember correctly you are 16, at such an age, at least hear in the US, you would not even be eligible to take ALS training, no less carry ALS equipment. Are the laws in Holland different? If not, how did you get ALS training and experience to carry ALS equipment. Depending on the state, here in the US, it is not even legal for Paramedics to carry personal ALS equipment.

Just some thoughts-
Pete

I dislike people telling me what I can buy, what I can own. I think that if tools are usedirresponsibly (by the untrained and cause harm, used incorrectly) that the user should be held criminally responsible. If the user was trained and had proof, no criminal charges could be brought and the user would be protected by the good samaritan act.

Maybe I just hate to be told what I can and can not do.

Well it's like this: My father is a fireman with a compagnie that makes ALS-equipment, so I can get the equipment.

I'm now also a nurse in training (finally), so I can get things like ALS equipment and of course also the ALS training.

And I'usually don't carry it with me (to much stuff). It's just a hobby.
I learn a lot about ALS from my dad, family (medics), my work and of course books and manuals.
I don't know it all (you never know it all), but I'm a fast learner and at the very least I know the basics and how to use the equipment that I have.

(sounds a bit over-confident, doesn't it?)


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I got the impression from the start of this thread that your position was that it was not a good idea for companies to sell to individuals advance medical kits without the appropriate training. It seems to me that while you believe that you either have or may have the training, if I were selling comprehensive medical kits, based upon your initial assumption, you would be ineligible to purchase said kits. It seems to me somewhat hypocritical to carry or even posses ALS equipment for which at best I suspect is limited training.

As I am unfamiliar with schooling in Holland, my assumptions may be all wrong. In the US generally 18 years old-post high school is the age at which an individual would be a nursing student at the Registered Nurse (RN) level and where ALS intervention would be taught. While many US high schools have vocational-educational programs of which nursing may be a program, to the best of my knowledge these are all at the Licensed Practical Nursing (LPN) level. ALS techniques are, again to the best of my knowledge not taught at this level.

Pete

Sutures- it's a very fine leather working needle. As I've said other places, I don't want to stitch someone. But if I have, absolutlely no other choice, I will, and if they hold still, it will be a pretty stitch. I started working with light leathers fairly young- taxidermy.

Hemostats- Jim, if you got these regulated, I know a lot of fly fishermen and electronics geeks who would have your head on a pig pole in thier front yard. I use them in tool kits when I don't have room for pliers, or need a heat sink or a fine clamp. Hemos are very precise, very small, all metal clamping pliers, there is no special magic to them.

So on and so forth, ad nasua, until you get to the meds. Tools should never be regulated, just thier possession by stupid people.

Pete, in lot (all?) of Europe, they don't do high school as we do in the States. As I understand it large number of younge people have a tech school education, basically a standardised pre-apprenticeship. High school as we think of it in the US, with almost pure academics, is a route to the university tryouts.

For those in Europe, is that assessment about right?

If I had to guess, Jim, by our standards, you're training for an LNA or something similiar with EMS. And Pete's right- by your proposal, your hobby would be illegal. Regulation rarely solves problems, but frequently makes new ones.

Ironraven, your assesment is about right.

Well, you can start your training as a nurse when you're 16 in Holland.
In takes 4 years, and you spent a lot of this on work-practices. During those, you are supervised by a qualified nurse and get basic training in school, but you'll be encouraged to learn and preform new prodedures. So you will learn on the job.
And you can aks for aditional specific subjects that you want to train for. I chose technical/medical subjects.

My position is that in isn't a good idea for some A.L.S PRODUCTS to be sold in FIRST-AID KITS. And especially not from the anonymous internet because the retailers and manufacturers can't know if the person know's what to do with it.

A good idea would be: Only be able to buy basic FAK's on the internet and a special store for those that are interested in additional equipment. (A.L.S. or other)

Another question: what do you think is A.L.S. equipment and what can be listed as B.L.S./ First-aid?

My idea is that A.L.S. equipment is upgrade stuff for maintaining the ABC and D.
That means in my case: Ambu-bag, Blood-pressure meter, IV's, oral airways, o2, c-collar, and some common meds. And some basic surgical stuff.

I don't carry ET Tubes, defibrilators, Epi and all that. Those item's I believe are in the category A.T.L.S. , very hard to get and very, very expensive.

When you start saying "some", you are on a slippery slope. Laws must be very precise, or they will mutate on you. You're right, the airways might make some of us a little nervous, but I've never known anyone who knew what they were who was unable to make the go/no-go call on thier own. BP cuffs, unless you try to use one as cervical collar or to control the bleeding of a head wound, really are pretty much harmless. Everything else you can get without an Rx is dual use stuff, as I said before.

Jim, I think you are seeing problem where they really don't exist.